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Gameplay changes

Postby torhu » Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:49 pm

OK, here are some gameplay changes that I've coded, and am considering to include in the next test patch.

LADDERS
-----------
1. Only single-handed weapons allowed, so no rifles or shotguns, and no akimbos. The player switches automatically when he enters the ladder. Press lastUsedWeapon (default Q key) to go back to previous weapon configuration after leaving the ladder.

2. Disable altfire in ladders for pistols. The right mouse button works as primary fire, to avoid confusion.

I think this is enough to counter 'ladder camping' on Train etc, but I'm open for suggestions.

This will of course make people camping on the roof in Tillan or Town harder to kill, but making explosives cheaper might help with that. ;)


OTHER STUFF
----------------
1. Made people move slower while reloading, to make it easier to knife them.

2. Made altfire faster but less accurate for pistols.

3. Made ammo belt not affect how many knives and explosives you can carry. 10 of each seems enough.


Please post your comments. :)
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Postby ReD NeCKersoN » Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:07 pm

Seems reasonable. Looking forward to testing these.
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Postby Breli » Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:29 pm

Hail to Master torhu and his coding skills 8)

I am looking forward to these changes as well.
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Re: Gameplay changes

Postby Pardner » Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:25 pm

torhu wrote:1. Only single-handed weapons allowed, so no rifles or shotguns, and no akimbos. The player switches automatically when he enters the ladder. Press lastUsedWeapon (default Q key) to go back to previous weapon configuration after leaving the ladder.

I'm not against this new ladder system, but I think it should automaticly switch back to the akimbo pistols at the top of the ladder. I use quick-swap (q) alot. usually I use akimbo pistols but I store my shotgun in the lastusedwepon. Its going to be anoying if you have the ladders change my lastusedwepon everytime. I dont know might have to try it.

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Postby torhu » Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:18 pm

LADDERS
-----------
Switching weapons automatically isn't easy to do in an elegant way. I might just leave the whole thing out for now. I haven't perceived ladder camping as a problem myself, since movement on ladders being limited to up and down makes you a pretty easy target. And roof campers will be harder to kill if you're handicapped like that when climbing up to get them. But we could at least test it, and see what effect it has on the gameplay. Maybe it will tell us something useful one way or the other.

Last used weapon command
--------------------------------
I'm wondering if the lastusedweapon command might be more useful if it just switched between akimbos and the previous weapon instead. That's what I mostly use it for myself, since switching to akimbos is a bit cumbersome. If you've got just one pistol, it would switch to that instead. The only problem is that sometimes you want to use only the best pistol, even if you've got two, so you can use altfire.

Half-life 2 has got a last-used-weapon command, in addition to a gravity gun/previous weapon command. But I think only one command of that kind should be enough for wq3.
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Postby hika » Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:29 pm

About the ladders, I see 2 possibilities that are debatable :
The first (already implemented) is that the weapon is switched automatically.
The second is that we can climb but without the possibility to shoot.

About the first, it is more realistic since we need at least one hand to climb.
The drawback is that the weapon switch is noisy, so we can lose the surprise effect, because of the ladder.
That's why the second is interesting in avoiding the weapon switch noise.

I guess It is a choice between realistic effect or gameplay.
Sorry to react just now, torhu ...
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Postby torhu » Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:43 pm

I think you have to at least be able to throw dynamite and molotovs while on a ladder. But I guess we could disallow any other weapons.

But I have a feeling we're going to end up not changing anything. But it could be interesting to see what some kind for change like this does to the gameplay.

But the noise that the automatic weapon switching makes is a problem.
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Postby Breli » Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:23 pm

hmmm. You guys have a point with the weapons noise ... I never thought ladder campers overly annoying myself. I rather wanted this to be more realistic. And getting rid of roof campers is also a problem.

What about not holstering weapons but restricting their usage on ladders. You can climb a ladder with a pistol in each hand but would only be able to use one of them in first fire mode ...
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Postby torhu » Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:30 pm

Not being able to use a weapon even if you have got it in your hand seems a bit counter-intuitive. I'll give it some thought.
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Postby hika » Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:42 pm

Another thoughts about ladder and weapons.
Even with only one pistol, when climbing, we still can reload, which need two hands.
What about not being able to reload when climbing ?
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Postby torhu » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:46 am

You could reload on a ladder, but it would be hard to do it while still climbing. Just put one arm around a step, then you have both hands free.

But I expect that I'll be removing all the ladder changes for the next test patch anyway.
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Postby hika » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:22 pm

Sorry to bring this up again.
I have another suggestion, if we keep the ladder and weapon thing as a feature.

We can allow the player to climb in Akimbo mode, with a shotgun, rifle or gatling, but without being able to shoot.
This way, the noise problem will be solved, and the player don't have to switch to single weapon and switch again to the last weapon.
The player has to switch manually if he/she wants to shoot.
About reloading (in single weapon only), yes, we can probably allow it only if the player do not climb up or down.
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Postby hika » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:01 pm

Another thoughts (one more time, yes).
I have asked a work team mate of mine about this feature.
His answer was the following :
- No auto weapon switch to one pistol (or knife) when climbing
- climbing with 2 pistols, shotguns or rifles is ok, since we cannot shoot, nor reload. Exception is when the player is on the top of the ladder since his arms can be freed by putting them on the ground.

Well, I still don't know if it is doable. If complicated, I'm afraid we will have to remove this feature.
However, I can try to give it a shot if wanted.
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Postby Breli » Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:56 pm

Ok. Actually testing the changes today on the server yielded one result:

Changing weapons when climbing ladders is crap. My bad ;)

I guess we should leave it like it is in 2.1 ... or prohibit shooting with two handed weapons or something.

Being slowed down while reloading is strange as well, but I guess I like it. Not sure though. Needs more testing.

Less accurate secondary fire is good, I guess. Needs more testing though I guess ...

Just my 2 cents.

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Postby ReD NeCKersoN » Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:06 am

Several times I was reloading while running towards a ladder. Touching the ladder cancelled my reload even if it was nearly finished. :x Backing into a ladder by mistake while shooting at someone really sucks. I don't think we should sacrifice gameplay for realism. Might not be realistic the old way but at least it didn't make me yell at my monitor. :lol:
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