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Postby mLy! » Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:16 pm

ReD NeCKersoN wrote:If you guys want to show us your "cleaned up" cfg it would certainly save the devs some trime. :D



2 come to mind:

R_displayrefresh "0" is not included in the default.cfg, but should be. Without it people cannot set the monitor refresh rate to how they want it. (doesn't get saved)

cg_fov 90 is included but can be removed because it is locked anyway so useless ( I would prefer it to be unlocked )
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Postby moRtem » Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:26 pm

mLy! wrote:R_displayrefresh "0" is not included in the default.cfg, but should be. Without it people cannot set the monitor refresh rate to how they want it. (doesn't get saved)


/seta r_displayrefresh VALUE


cg_fov 90 is included but can be removed because it is locked anyway so useless ( I would prefer it to be unlocked )


totally disagree due to realistic and fair gaming


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Postby Tequila » Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:46 pm

Hum, about the patch, I'm thinking we shouldn't count TK with Molotov & Dynamite as you can't really aim with them and teammate can come to the weapon range after the fire. Not expected TK are so easier with such weapons and you can reach the limit in one "shot"...
Maybe other weapons are not suitable to be considered as TK.
I really don't want to add a not fair patch to the code :?
What do you think ?

I remember also we discussed on IRC to have such function but with some time ending. I mean the TK check should not be done after a given time because really annoying TK are the stupid one at the game/round beginning. What do you think if we use g_friendlyfire cvar to do so ? Actually, this cvar is set or not set, if it is set, even greater than 1, it's the same. I propose to use it like that: If g_friendlyfire is greater than 1, it represents the number of seconds at a round beginning during which CheckTeamKills will be called to eventually kick a TK. We can also think of a more complicated way but do we really need to complicate that stuff too much ;) ?
Any more though ?
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Postby moRtem » Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:09 pm

Tequila wrote:If g_friendlyfire is greater than 1, it represents the number of seconds at a round beginning during which CheckTeamKills will be called to eventually kick a TK. We can also think of a more complicated way but do we really need to complicate that stuff too much ;) ?
Any more though ?


i wouldn't abuse a boolean-cmd for such stuff

it would be better to add a different cmd like "g_teamkill_timeout"


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Postby Tequila » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:17 am

Okay, I just commited an updated patch in r260.

So I resume here what is defined: 3 new cvars, default is always 0
    g_maxteamkills: 0=disable TK check, >=1 is then the max accepted TK count number
    g_teamkillsforgettime: 0=disable or no forget time..., or it's the number of seconds after what TK count will be reset
    g_teamkillschecktime: 0=disable or no time limit at round beginning will be used, or it's the number of seconds during what TK check will done since rounds beginning

I think the best config is something like that:
g_maxteamkills=3
g_teamkillsforgettime=300
g_teamkillschecktime=20
So TK will only be counted during the first 20 seconds of rounds. The TK count will only be reset after 5 minutes, so after few rounds.

Remember, TK count is always reset at new map start. Also now dynamite, molotov and gatling shots won't be counted for TK...
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Postby Sucalakafufu » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:26 am

hey tequila,
i think i mentioned this in the B3 topic but just in case you didnt see that.
would it be possible to still include TKing with dyno and mol. for the TK count? so if someone TKs with dyno or mol. it gives him just 1 more TK in the TK count instead of the amount of people he killed? so basically, is it possible for part of the code to check if the TK was with dyno or mol. and only count it as one TK? because i find that many TKs are done with dyno and mol. instead of other weapons. :|
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Postby Tequila » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:37 am

Sucalakafufu, I'm really not sure to understand what you mean.

This patch is mostly an admins tool to fight BAD TK... I mean essentially there's bad people just TKing at round beginning and that's the only ones we could really identify as intentionally bad.

About dynamite & molotov, that's stupid to intentionally TKing at beginning with that weapons... I'm pretty sure stupid people will then try but that's just harder and leave a better chance to players to run away and play.

As I think I said in the B3 thread, people complaining about TK must open a dedicated thread so we can better understand what "TK" word means.

If g_friendlyfire is enabled on a server as admin want it for better game reality, people will TK people and I think most dyno & molotov TK will mostly be not really wanted... So they should be count as "GOOD" TK as it's just dangerous to play with matches :P ... That's what I think, but I may be wrong.
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Postby Sucalakafufu » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:31 am

Tequila wrote:Sucalakafufu, I'm really not sure to understand what you mean.

This patch is mostly an admins tool to fight BAD TK... I mean essentially there's bad people just TKing at round beginning and that's the only ones we could really identify as intentionally bad.

About dynamite & molotov, that's stupid to intentionally TKing at beginning with that weapons... I'm pretty sure stupid people will then try but that's just harder and leave a better chance to players to run away and play.

As I think I said in the B3 thread, people complaining about TK must open a dedicated thread so we can better understand what "TK" word means.

If g_friendlyfire is enabled on a server as admin want it for better game reality, people will TK people and I think most dyno & molotov TK will mostly be not really wanted... So they should be count as "GOOD" TK as it's just dangerous to play with matches :P ... That's what I think, but I may be wrong.


thanks for your response tequila :)
i think ur right.. we need a thread just to discuss what should be counted as a TK :P

Edit: I just made a topic for those who want to discuss what a bad TK is :)
viewtopic.php?p=14094#14094
so hopefully we get that worked out so everyone is on the same page. sound good tequila? :)
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Postby Lucky Bro » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:01 am

Let's not invent a new meaning of well known word..
Team Kill is act of killing your team member.
OK, my English is not enough to describe it, but here in wiki could be found a well description of it:
Wiki article wrote:Team-killing or TKing is a term used in team-based First-person Shooters to describe players who accidentally or deliberately slay members of their own team. In the majority of cases, it is a discouraged activity. Accidental TKing can happen due to inaccurate fire, bad driving, collateral damage or confusion in the heat of the moment. Deliberate TKing is usually carried out by griefers or for some concrete reward - such as to steal the player's weapon, beat them to a weapon, vehicle or objective - or else as revenge for an earlier slight. It may also be carried out for the sheer hilarity in performing a devious act, such as when one plays a prank on a friend, or even simply out of boredom.

As well as a few methods how the problem is ovled by others.
And I would argee with Sucalakafufu - many deliberate (yeah, I got this word :)) TKs are done with dyno & molotov.
If you would try to do discouraging intentional friendly fire (yeah, the whole phrase! :)) you would try to do as much damage as possible. And with knowledge that it won't be counted as TK - you will do it on a regular basis :)
Since we are talking about deliberate TKing, we should respect (as an opponent) also a bad person who TKing. He will understand the new rules in a few moments. Only 2 TKs are allowed in 5 minutes? Ok, let's do them. And no punishment for dyno&molotov TKs? Let's do them too.
These guys are not just usual kids who can't play the game. These guys are the guys who play game and now they want to discourage others. And they will try thier best to do so. And they will reconnect after first kicking from the game for sure.
So, any TK should be counted whatever weapon the guy have used to do so. Because you want to prevent the act of killing. And you will rise g_maxteamkills from 3 to allow the use of dyno in case if there are more than 4 players in one team. In case if there are 4 players - you have to kill whole your team with one dyno to get kicked. And that is well reason to be kicked. You still have an option to reconnect.
I think in that case you don't need to create a whole topic and a new section in manual for new anti-TKing CVars.

Talking about TKing in my opinion the only reasonable anti-TKing stuff is an admin. As the judge about TKs. As well as a judge about other things. Because he is human and he is present at the moment when something is happening on the server. And he is the only one who can decide to kick or not to kick. In other cases I would like to see all this anti-cheat, anti-TKing, anti-campering stuff as off. The bad guys will find a way anyway. Because any bot can't win a human :) But such anti stuff will complicate a game for fair players for sure. You already got the case about dyno&molotov. I know that you guys are not agree with me, but at least don't do that anti stuff so complicated to understand without reading a manual..
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Postby Sucalakafufu » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:39 am

i agree with you LuckyBro. I just made the thread so those who don't agree can post their differences and we could work them out :). o and maybe if someone TKs with dyno or molotov within so many seconds of the start of the match, then they get killed. if its past so many seconds then they wont get automatically kicked or charged a TK cuz that could be on accident past that point :)
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Postby Lucky Bro » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:59 am

Sucalakafufu, your topic is fine :) I'm not the only one here, so the more we discuss the more results we may get.
And concerning this topic:
May be each non team kill should reduce your TK counter? Or may be it should be done in some proportion like 1/2 (two enemy kills will forgive you one team kill)?
Or may be we should take into account frags counter. If guy has -5 kills he probably doing something wrong. And if he has 7 then it was accident..
Something like that.
Just an idea..
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