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Are these entities still implemented/needed/wanted?

Postby Pardner » Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:42 pm

This thread applies to both mappers and coders. I didn't know where to post this, but I think it applies mostly to coders. Mappers input needed as well.

Currently mapper's entities are defined in two ".def" files..... entities.def (old Q3 entities) and entities-sg.def (our entites). Smokin Guns uses its own definitions as well as some defined in the original Q3 definitions. For those who don't map, it is kinda confusing int the editor because it shows entites that may or may not still be used in Smokin' Guns. This was done (I think) so people could map for both Q3 and SG with out interference. I feel this is no longer needed and that the definitions could use some attention.

With that said, one of my side projects has been to clean up the entites-sg.def. The end goal is to have one, complete definition file. I have been re-writing some of the descriptions and adding the definitions from the original entitis.def.

I would like to open a discussion thread/question thread about the following entites. I was wondering a) are these entities are used in maps (mappers please answer)? b) are these entites implemented in the code (coders please answer)? or c) are these entites worth keeping in the entities definitions (all)?

unknown
delete
keep
  • _decal
  • _skybox
  • func_plat
  • func_static
  • holdable_medkit
  • holdable_teleporter
  • info_camp
  • info_notnull
  • info_null
  • info_spectator_start (commented out, not used?)
  • item_armor_body
  • item_armor_shard
  • item_botroam
  • item_enviro
  • item_flight
  • item_haste
  • item_health
  • item_health_large
  • item_health_mega
  • item_health_small
  • item_invis
  • item_quad
  • item_regen
  • shooter_rocket
  • target_laser (commented out, not used?)
  • target_location
  • target_push
  • target_remove_powerups
  • target_teleporter
  • team_CTF_blueflag
  • team_CTF_redflag
  • trigger_push
  • trigger_teleport
  • weapon_bfg
  • weapon_gauntlet
  • weapon_grapplinghook
  • weapon_grenadelauncher
  • weapon_machinegun
  • weapon_plasmagun
  • weapon_railgun
  • weapon_rocketlauncher
  • Suspended spawnflags
  • misc_portal_camera
  • misc_portal_surface
  • misc_teleporter_dest
  • shooter_grenade
  • shooter_plasma

Note:I know this is a lot of looking up for the coders. I just wanted to start a thread about it. Maybe just keep this in mind when you are browsing the SG source :|
Last edited by Pardner on Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:13 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Postby Joe Kari » Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:11 pm

_skybox : is usefull (it use it in one of my demo map)
_decal : I have never used that, but could be usefull
func_plat : can be usefull
func_static : very usefull !!! that's the entity to use for far-clipping !!! :D
info_null : I use that for light entity (to target a point that is removed after compiling)
info_notnull : I have never used that, but it is probably usefull in some way
info_spectator_start : I don't know if SG use that
item_botroam : I have tested that, but I didn't seen any effect on bot
target_laser : probably useless

We could probably remove all Q3 weapon and powerup.

We should probably keep target_* entity.
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Postby Pardner » Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:22 pm

Joe Kari wrote:info_null : I use that for light entity (to target a point that is removed after compiling)

You don't use target_position?


Joe Kari wrote:We should probably keep target_* entity.

target_push no longer works in SG. I figured it wasn't useful to include anymore. target_location might still be useful, but cg_drawteamoverlay doesn't do anything :|

Agreed about the q3 weapons.
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Re: Are these entities still implemented/needed/wanted?

Postby Tequila » Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:23 am

I checked the code for you ;)
  • holdable_*: none supported
  • info_camp: implemented, does exactly the same than info_notnull & target_position
  • info_notnull: implemented
  • info_null: implemented, but do nothing
  • info_spectator_start: NOT implemented
  • item_*: only items from SG are supported in the code
  • item_botroam: implemented, need "weight" attribut to be set
  • shooter_rocket: NOT implemented
  • target_laser: implemented
  • target_location: implemented
  • target_push: NOT implemented, but can be easily activated if needed
  • target_remove_powerups: implemented but won't return the flag, I guess it was used essentially to return the flag when you fall in lava or similar situation. Actually it only reset the target own powerups: belt, scope, gold, gatling mode, dynamite/molotov lit state
  • team_CTF_blueflag: NOT implemented
  • team_CTF_blueplayer <-- I assume you mean "team_CTF_redflag": NOT implemented
  • weapon_*: only SG ones are supported
  • Suspended spawnflags: the code is removed, but can be re-enabled
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Postby Tequila » Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:36 am

Just checked about "cg_drawteamoverlay", only the overlay output is disabled in the code.

I propose to enable it again for the next beta. Btw I propose to add a server cvar to disable it on the server side with 'disabled' as default.
8)
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Re: Are these entities still implemented/needed/wanted?

Postby /dev/random » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:00 am

Tequila wrote:
  • target_remove_powerups: implemented but won't return the flag, I guess it was used essentially to return the flag when you fall in lava or similar situation. Actually it only reset the target own powerups: belt, scope, gold, gatling mode, dynamite/molotov lit state
  • team_CTF_blueplayer <-- I assume you mean "team_CTF_redflag": NOT implemented
I don't know the purpose of target_remove_powerups, but a mapper should use NoDrop brushes for lava etc. It could be used to remove powerups in a new map stage/area, depending on leveldesign (dungeons etc.).
team_CTF_blueplayer and team_CTF_bluespawn are special spawnpoints for CTF.
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Postby Pardner » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:46 am

@Tequila: the cg_drawteamoverlay might be a nice feature to help out with BR mode accidental TKs. None of the maps use target_location, but those are very easily implemented.

The target_push and suspended spawnflags really work together. Jump pads in a western themed game seems kinda silly. If anybody see a reason to have these in the editor please speak up, otherwise they are just editor clutter.

Joe Kari wrote:info_null : I use that for light entity (to target a point that is removed after compiling)
info_notnull : I have never used that, but it is probably usefull in some way

Tequila wrote:
  • info_notnull: implemented
  • info_null: implemented, but do nothing

:? Joes uses info_null but it does nothing? This is why this thread is here :D

@/dev/random and Tequila
I always thought that target_remove_powerups was used to remove Quad, Haste, Flight, etc. I haven't test this in SG with the boiler plate, etc.

Tequila wrote:team_CTF_blueplayer <-- I assume you mean "team_CTF_redflag": NOT implemented

Yes, I meant team_redflag (corrected in first post)
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Postby ReD NeCKersoN » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:59 am

I'd like to see entities with possible future uses remain. CTF stuff could come in handy.

EDIT: Keep target_push please. This has possibilities beyond jumpads.
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Postby Tequila » Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:14 am

Pardner wrote:@Tequila: the cg_drawteamoverlay might be a nice feature to help out with BR mode accidental TKs. None of the maps use target_location, but those are very easily implemented.

I heard you vote to activate it ;)

Pardner wrote:The target_push and suspended spawnflags really work together. Jump pads in a western themed game seems kinda silly. If anybody see a reason to have these in the editor please speak up, otherwise they are just editor clutter.
Maybe useful for a space cowboys mod ;)

Pardner wrote:
Joe Kari wrote:info_null : I use that for light entity (to target a point that is removed after compiling)
info_notnull : I have never used that, but it is probably usefull in some way

Tequila wrote:
  • info_notnull: implemented
  • info_null: implemented, but do nothing

:? Joes uses info_null but it does nothing? This is why this thread is here :D

I meant it does nothing in the code... like the "light" entity. It is directly freed by the engine. Maybe Joe should use "light" entity for his purpose, but he knows what he does when mapping and so the "light" entity is used in not the way he expects by q3map2.

ReD NeCKersoN wrote:I'd like to see entities with possible future uses remain. CTF stuff could come in handy.

EDIT: Keep target_push please. This has possibilities beyond jumpads.

I heard you. Btw, actually, that trigger may uses 2 sounds:
Code: Select all
"sound/world/jumppad.wav"
Code: Select all
"sound/misc/windfly.wav"

jumppad sound is used if target_push entity is suspended otherwise this is windfly one. Should we keep that names and need to provide them when this target is used ? or change the sound file names ?
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Postby Joe Kari » Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:43 am

Pardner wrote:
Joe Kari wrote:info_null : I use that for light entity (to target a point that is removed after compiling)
info_notnull : I have never used that, but it is probably usefull in some way

Tequila wrote:
  • info_notnull: implemented
  • info_null: implemented, but do nothing

:? Joes uses info_null but it does nothing? This is why this thread is here :D

Of course: info_null is removed after your map is compiled. That's why it's usefull: the entity wont be in your .bsp !!! So the game code does not care, only q3map2 care.
Use info_null everywhere you need to target something that is needed only at compile time. We should keep that !

@ Tequila:
Light entity with no target: light all around.
Light entity that target an info_null (or whatever): spotlight (directional light).
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Postby ReD NeCKersoN » Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:13 am

Tequila wrote:jumppad sound is used if target_push entity is suspended otherwise this is windfly one. Should we keep that names and need to provide them when this target is used ? or change the sound file names ?

I suggest whatever is easiest. :D
As for the sounds themselves, I don't like either one to be in SG. We could just replace them with "silent" files for now?
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Postby Tequila » Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:40 am

ReD NeCKersoN wrote:I suggest whatever is easiest. :D
As for the sounds themselves, I don't like either one to be in SG. We could just replace them with "silent" files for now?

I think I'll just disable the sound then. Will see later if it's useful to re-add them and then we will choose the best way.
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Postby Pardner » Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:37 pm

Tequila wrote:
Pardner wrote:@Tequila: the cg_drawteamoverlay might be a nice feature to help out with BR mode accidental TKs. None of the maps use target_location, but those are very easily implemented.

I heard you vote to activate it ;)


If you activate it, we will need to add target_locations to all maps. Also, we should look and see who it performs with SG weapons/power up. I am thinking it might have trouble with akimbo pistols, and during BR mode when they are dead and as flies. I like the feature because it tells where my teammates are.

Tequila wrote:team_CTF_blueflag: NOT implemented
team_CTF_redflag: NOT implemented

If the CTF flags are not implemented then I can remove them from the entities definitions. It will be easy enough to add again if/when we decide to need them. <---Arguments?

I will try to test the some of the unknown entities some time this week.

EDIT: I added trigger_push to the list of entities. Also used for jump pads. I added target_push to the keep list, same for trigger_push?
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Postby ReD NeCKersoN » Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:27 pm

Pardner wrote:If the CTF flags are not implemented then I can remove them from the entities definitions. It will be easy enough to add again if/when we decide to need them.

Ok, fine. True that we don't need them now, but I've always wanted to try making a CTF map for SG someday.
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Postby Pardner » Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:48 pm

ReD NeCKersoN wrote:Ok, fine. True that we don't need them now, but I've always wanted to try making a CTF map for SG someday.

Same here. I would like to create a new game type with all new maps, but I think 1.1 shouldn't be held back because of it ;P
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