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[mLy!]

I wanted to post my ideas again on how to make this game better. Some ideas are allready mentionned in other topics, some are new.


Hitboxes
They are total crap tbh.
1. Hitting shoulder instead of head, or hand instead of torso is just very random
2. Legshots are insane, its easyer to kill someone aiming at his legs then aiming at his head, where is the logic?

My proposition: only 2 hitboxes: head and body. Damage should stay for head, and body damage should be around that of 'arm' now.
This will also make the boiler plate more usefull.

Weapons

1. My previous ideas:
-decrease damage of peacemaker
-increase price of sawed off and remington shotguns
-decrease price of rifles and scope
-increase damage done by winchester shotgun.

2. new ideas:
-increase damage and damage radius of molotov cocktails, these are completly useless in the game.

-Remove the ability to have 2 pistols ( yes, flame on but just think about it) and maybe alow 3 weapons to be held: pistol, rifle and shotgun.
Players would actually start using rifles and shotguns for what they are intended, long and short range respectivly. And the pistol would just be a back up allround weapon.
Not so sure if this will work, but its something to think about.

[moRtem]

Hitboxes
They are total crap tbh.

agree - but hitboxes are indepentend from models, so i would suggest to check whether hitboxes basically make sense or not (in terms of anatomic proportions), and to resize all default models (those which are delivered together with SG) so that they fit into those hitboxes -- caution: they also need to fit when the model is moving

unlagged2.1 (which is also used in SG) would already have a cvar implemented which allows to make hitboxes visible (when playing on a devmap-"server") -- but i am afraid this feature wasn't ported to SG, since it would most likely need a few adjustments (vq3 only got one cube-shaped hitbox)

1. Hitting shoulder instead of head, or hand instead of torso is just very random

just a logic consequence of the facts i wrote above

2. Legshots are insane, its easyer to kill someone aiming at his legs then aiming at his head, where is the logic?

mm - - if head-hitbox would be correct, everything would be fine imo -- except one thing: peacemaker's damage needs to be reduced a tiny bit, so that it takes 3 shots to kill someone when hitting his legs (atm 2 shots = kill) -- OR: damage-factor when hitting legs needs to be reduced to a value where it takes 3 coltpeacemaker-shots to kill someone (i actually think this idea would be better than the first, since leg-damage-factor seems a little high to me compared to arms)

My proposition: only 2 hitboxes: head and body.

i don't think this is a good idea -- torso and legs/arms should be seriously handled in a different way

Damage should stay for head, and body damage should be around that of 'arm' now.

did you ever kill someone by shooting his arms? -- i had several fights already where i kept hitting the opponents arms with remington / schofield, and you need ~5 shots to kill someone, which is a LOT and ammo is limited -- in my opinion damage-factors should stay the way they are right now -- but what about making someone unable to shoot for a short duration (like a second) when hitting his arm?

This will also make the boiler plate more usefull.

boiler plate is already useful -- at least i mostly lost my boilerplate aswell, when dying in a battle

-decrease damage of peacemaker

see my points above

-increase price of sawed off and remington shotguns

i totally disagree on this -- sawed off is a deadly weapon on VERY near distance, but not effective if you are just a few meters away - therefor it got fast reload and it's possible to switch to this weapon fast .. in my opinion a perfectly balanced weapon (those who keep dying by shotgun should overthink their tactics)

about remington SG: deadly weapon on close-range and still very effective on mid-range, BUT it takes a long time to reload that weapon and it takes a long time to switch to that weapon .. so i think if all things are considered, this weapon is very balanced aswell -- (those who keep dying by this shotgun should overthink their tactics too)

on the other hand, buying one of these shotguns instead of pistols makes players totally helpless on 'far'-range and pretty helpless on mid-range -- so that's they payoff

whilest with pistols you are deadly on any range, if you got some accuracy

-decrease price of rifles and scope

agree with sharp-rifle (and scope) -- i am not quite sure about the other rifles. I lately noticed that those guns are a lot better than most believe. (fast reload, good damage, big magazine). But yea, i think it would be worth a try to get the first rifle for a price of 20$. And the other rifle probably needs some goodie aswell (e.g. like sharp-rifle: shooting through boiler plate without losing power)

-increase damage done by winchester shotgun.

i wouldn't underestimate that gun -- it's great to finish someone who is wounded already, and i think it would be a bad idea to increase damage, since this gun is magically accurate (it's almost impossible to miss using that gun, but spread at the same time is low enough to make several parrels hit at one time)

2. new ideas:
-increase damage and damage radius of molotov cocktails, these are completly useless in the game.

useless to kill: yes - and i think it's good that way -- i rather see them as a tactical element -> making temporary barricades -- and they are doing their job well there (it's just that hardly anyone is using those tactically so far)

-Remove the ability to have 2 pistols ( yes, flame on but just think about it)

i think highering spread a bit when using 2 pistols at the same time should be enough "punishment" -- because then it would sometimes make sense to switch to one gun again ("i want to get more accurate, and have the ability to do fast-shots (secondary weapon-function), but at the same time i abstain from having the ability to shoot 2 bullets at once")

and maybe alow 3 weapons to be held: pistol, rifle and shotgun.

in case some accuracy is taken from pistols, i like the idea that only 2 weapons can be held -- so you have to decide if you either want to be effective on near to mid (shotgun and pistol combination), or mid to far (pistol and rifle combination) -- this aswell adds a tactical element when playing in a team

Players would actually start using rifles and shotguns for what they are intended, long and short range respectivly. And the pistol would just be a back up allround weapon.

like i said, in my opinion it should be like this:
- SG: most effective on near distance (probably aswell semi effective on mid distance)
- pistols: most effective on mid distance (semi effective on far range and close combat)
- rifles: most effective on far distance (semi effective on mid)


/quit

[mLy!]

I guess you agree on the most essential parts.

One more thing: you really like playing with the rifles? I found it extremely hard to aim with them. I don't really understand it but it seems like I aim worse with rifle then with pistols. I get the feeling I miss even when I was sure I'd hit.

And about the winchester shotgun. I tried playing with it a lot, and I just cannot call that a usefull weapon. You say its suefull to finished someone off, but so is a remington pistol at fast shooting.
The damage is so low, you need 4 hits to kill someone at 100 HP, thats seems insane for a 33dollar weapon compared to others.

[Kouma]

Hitboxes
They are total crap tbh.

IMHO, hitboxes are just fine, shall stay unchanged... what happens is the ping don't delays the players' bodies, only the bullets. So, if you have a ping of 300, you aim at someone's right arm while the bastard is moving, you will probly hit his left arm. It sucks, I know...

-increase price of sawed off and remington shotguns

NO! Shotguns are already too expensive! No need to decrease! We aren't rich, you know! Maybe you're planning to open a gun shop or what?

-increase damage done by winchester shotgun.

I think the damage is fine, it has a good range and matching spread. Personally, I can do a pretty nice job with this gun.

-Remove the ability to have 2 pistols

Akimbo is cool. No need to change.

alow 3 weapons to be held: pistol, rifle and shotgun.

That would be kinda unrealistic. Where would the 3rd gun be? It would be nice to have a option of "empty hands", so when you want a "peaceful meeting" with somebody, you can be sure you won't be shot in the back.

sawed off is a deadly weapon on VERY near distance, but not effective if you are just a few meters away

LOL! I think you never played with Dirty Harry...

whilest with pistols you are deadly on any range, if you got some accuracy

...or a low ping.

you really like playing with the rifles? I found it extremely hard to aim with them.

I do. I love the Winchester rifle and I can do the same thing with it that I do with pistols, since my ping in the servers I play is around 200. I can't hit anyone strafing from some distance, but at close range, or if the guy is coming either at my direction or opposite it, I can easily kill the bastard Of couse all the kills I cited above depends of the ping difference.

The damage is so low, you need 4 hits to kill someone at 100 HP,

It isn't low. Just aim better (torso, head, LEGS), and you can kill with 1 or 2 hits.

-------------------------------------

Well, besides all of this above, I agree with all the other suggests.

[moRtem]

One more thing: you really like playing with the rifles? I found it extremely hard to aim with them.

"like" .. mm - i mostly play with 2 colts, since they provide faster kills .. but as a backup-weapon rifles did a good job for me (i usually don't buy rifles, but picked them up a couple of times lately. and found out that they ain't that bad, since they got fast reload and pretty fast shot-frequence)

And about the winchester shotgun. I tried playing with it a lot, and I just cannot call that a usefull weapon. You say its suefull to finished someone off, but so is a remington pistol at fast shooting.

if you are 100 % accurate, yes -- but when the enemy tries to avoid your attack, it is a lot easier to hit with a winchester, since it got a little spread and a couple of barrels

The damage is so low, you need 4 hits to kill someone at 100 HP, thats seems insane for a 33dollar weapon compared to others.

therefor fast reload and fast shot-frequence.. plus tiny spread to make it easier to hit

what happens is the ping don't delays the players' bodies, only the bullets. So, if you have a ping of 300, you aim at someone's right arm while the bastard is moving, you will probly hit his left arm.

nonsense, since SG got unlagged2.01 included

LOL! I think you never played with Dirty Harry...

or you never played against someone who keeps the opponent's weaponchoice in mind when attacking


/quit

[mLy!]

Dont mean to be offensive, but please dont post when you obviously have no clue on what you are saying

IMHO, hitboxes are just fine, shall stay unchanged... what happens is the ping don't delays the players' bodies, only the bullets. So, if you have a ping of 300, you aim at someone's right arm while the bastard is moving, you will probly hit his left arm. It sucks, I know...

[Kouma]

Dont mean to be offensive, but please dont post when you obviously have no clue on what you are saying

No offense taken. Well, I really have no clue of you guys point. I'm just talking based on what happens to ME. I've REALLY studied it carefully and I noticed that in MY game, my bullets can't hit people, but people can hit me just fine.

I dont really know what happens, maybe it's my 300kbps connection, maybe Unlagged just don't likes me, maybe this, maybe that...

[dowoshek]

I like the idea of increasing spread for akimbo mode - that'd make those funny two leg's hit deaths a bit less frequent. But IMHO even more strange is surviving after head-shot with remington. I think factors for this situations should be adjusted.

Increasing price of Peacemaker isn't a bad idea too. Also lower price for Winchester shotgun - IMHO i'd see no point in buying this gun even if its price was comparable with Sawed-Off and Remington Gauge.

3 guns carrying? That'd kill one of the most important rule in the game: "watch and count your bullets, every bullet is precious". But what about allowing 2 guns of any kind? Even 2 shotguns of the same type or for example a shotgun and rifle (without pistols at all). Is it possible (realistic) to carry two guns like that? That's the point.
Cheers,
Bestia

[/dev/random]

I dont really know what happens, maybe it's my 300kbps connection, maybe Unlagged just don't likes me, maybe this, maybe that...

nonsense, since SG got unlagged 2.01 included

Unlagged tries to compensate a bad ping to a certain degree, but it can not work wonders. So it's nonsense to say a bad ping doesn't matter just because the game is unlagged.

[moRtem]

I dont really know what happens, maybe it's my 300kbps connection, maybe Unlagged just don't likes me, maybe this, maybe that...

nonsense, since SG got unlagged 2.01 included

Unlagged tries to compensate a bad ping to a certain degree, but it can not work wonders. So it's nonsense to say a bad ping doesn't matter just because the game is unlagged.

no wonder needed here -- the server keeps a history of the last few hundred milliseconds, and whenever you shoot, it compares your shot with what YOU have seen at the time you pulled the trigger

this results in bad ping NOT influencing accuracy (and that's the reason why i called a part of Kouma's post "nonsense")

but of course: if someone with lower ping presses '+attack' at the very same moment as you do, he will get the kill, since his hit reaches the server earlier


/quit

[/dev/random]

300kbps and maybe even packet-loss do need wonders. I assume most packets arrive too lately to be in compared against unlagged's cache.

[mLy!]

3 guns carrying? That'd kill one of the most important rule in the game: "watch and count your bullets, every bullet is precious".

Please, now you can have 2 pistols + rifle = 24 bullets.
My sugestion is 1pistol 1 rifle 1 shotgun = 20 bullets


ps: please dont go offtopic about "yes but when I have 300 ping...". No online game is ment to be played with 300 ping, and so that is to be ignored imo.

[Joe Kari]

Akimbo pistol is what make this game great, I don't see any reason to remove this feature. It's a part of the gameplay, everyone love that.

While the hitcode is not very fine, the hitboxes system is. That's a good thing that we could hit foot, leg, hand (which can lead to explode a dynamite), arm, stomach, back, neck and head. (i'm sure I have forgotten one or two zone ).

For the boiler plate, every Western fan remember why it's so great that this piece of metal only protect the body ("Aim for the heart, Ramon !"). This protection is really effective, especially versus shotgun at mid/long range. No need to overpower it.

I'm against the idea of having 3 weapons, for many reason. Logical : this make no sense to carry a rifle and a shotgun while not being able to carry 2 rifle or 2 shotgun. Gameplay : because it is good for teamplay, if player needs support from team-mate having a different weapon.

And molotovs, useless ?? Of course it's not a weapon for duel
It's a tactical weapon. Many players use them wisely, especially in Bank Robbery. Burning Cobber's tunnel, for example, is often a good strategy. Some people love to viciously throw them without firing them, and if you didn't paid attention, they light the last one and all the place burn like hell, with you, trapped in the flame.


The only thing I agree: yes IMHO, leg damage are too high, and so, people have tendencies to aim for the leg, and it's not really realistic/fun (I hate to die with an akimbo peacemaker's double shot in the leg, IMHO, 3 bullets should be better).

[mLy!]

even if you use them right, its still very difficult.
they would be so much better if the damage increases.

You need 4 or 5 lighted molotov hits to kill someone :O
You can easily run true them, because you dont lose much HP

And molotovs, useless ?? Of course it's not a weapon for duel
It's a tactical weapon. Many players use them wisely, especially in Bank Robbery. Burning Cobber's tunnel, for example, is often a good strategy. Some people love to viciously throw them without firing them, and if you didn't paid attention, they light the last one and all the place burn like hell, with you, trapped in the flame.

[Sucalakafufu]

imo molotovs are VERY useful.. even to kill.. just not in the wide open map as they shouldnt be useful over long distances.. they arent that kind of weapon.. but if someone is hiding or in a tight spot. u can easily kill them through a wall or door even!

also the rifles are great! u just need to get used to the crosshairs being a bit off