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Postby thug » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:45 am

Thank you everyone.

I reset the nudge to zero and I am now back to my original ping.

Rane your right. The player who accused me can't go a match without making outrageous accusations about everyone who beats him. I should have just ignored him.

Thanks again to everyone who posted a reply, it was very informative.

See Y'all in the servers!

- thug




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Postby moRtem » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:06 pm

Joe Kari wrote:Most of things about timenudge are just long-standing urban legend...


I experienced that cl_timenudge causes players to appear choppy.

moRtem wrote:If i had a source of a coder telling "Timenudge does NOT make you appear choppy" i would also rather believe him than someone who is talking about his subjective feeling.

Like /dev/random said, the FAQ was currently made by the author of Unlagged himself, and he says


Since there seems to be some sort of confusion, i want to specify what i meant in my last posts (i was short in time when i wrote the previous replies, so i probably wasn't clear enough):
1) I know, that this FAQ is written by the author of unlagged (i am playing mods using his unlagged-code since 2004 and quake3-engine games in general for ~10 years).

2) I wrote "If i had a source of a coder telling "Timenudge does NOT make you appear choppy" i would also rather believe him than someone who is talking about his subjective feeling.", which means, that i totally understand your point of view. You got a coder (who definately is into the net-code) who says, that cl_timenudge does not effect the appeareance in players in any way. On the other hand you got a couple of players (including myself) who say "out of my experience, cl_timenudge causes jerky movement".


Be sure that cl_timenudge, like all cl_* cvar, only involve the client-side.


In theory, yes. But like i have written several times, i am totally serious about players who abused negative-timenudge-settings to appear choppy.
After cl_timenudge got locked (clientside by mod) to only positive values, the jerky movements of those players was gone.

But then again: This is my personal opinion, based on ingame experience (but most of the other experienced players have had the same feeling) with g_speed 320 (with g_speed 380 it was even more obvious). In Smokin' Guns (since this game is very slow) i personally don't notice this choppyness, but i heard from others, that they do.

No it doesn't. Please read the full documentation of Unlagged to understand what exactly does delaging code. Really, it doesn't affect your ping in any manner.


I read the full documentation more than once in the past years.
And i am not stupid -> I do know that it can't change the real latency in any way, that's why i wrote "a virtual ping of 0".

And again: In delag you don't have to aim in front of your opponent. Without delag you have to aim in front and that's why ppl tend to use timenudge in games which are not unlagged.

The second effect caused by ping: When two players shoot at each other and press the attack-button at the very same time, the player with better ping wins the battle. -- I rather believe that cl_timenudge doesn't really compensate this, because everyone is currently allowed to use cl_timenudge, and if two players with different ping use timenudge, the difference between their two "timenudged pings" is the same as the difference between their two "real pings" which results in: better real ping still wins the battle.


So all in all, i still believe we have this pros and contras of timenudge:

- pros in an unlagged game: none
- contras in an unlagged game: choppy movement (might be an urban legend, but several ppl are claiming that they are experiencing it)

Which leads to my conclusion:
Keeping timenudge has no pros, but at the same time a big contra (in the imagination of some players). So no matter if the choppyness of players is a myth or not, i still believe it would be better to lock timenudge to only positive values (and 0)


/quit
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Postby Juaro Juarez » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:49 pm

Just to say this in between of your mile long posts...
i rather believe in things i see than in any hypothetically given cases.
And to ME, it seems like players don't appear as they would with a normal/ non-timnudged ping.
And also, to clarify that, i'm not into that whole coding stuff at all, to me it justs seems/seemed that those players using negative timenudge are "lagging" around and get "unhittable".
I especially experienced that in that time 2 years ago when everybody was using it.
(Also, i think that is only the case on Jeuxlinux because in Rawhide everyhide has a ping of 100+ and it does not care there because you lag anyways :))
-nox-Juaro-

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Postby Joe Kari » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:52 pm

In theory, yes. But like i have written several times, i am totally serious about players who abused negative-timenudge-settings to appear choppy.

Probably because people who "abuse" timenudge are currently abusing others tricks too. I know what weakness have the Unlagged code, and I'm sure you know them too (no need to mention that here). However, people abusing those weakness harms themself too.
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Postby Sucalakafufu » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:40 pm

moRtem wrote:And again: In delag you don't have to aim in front of your opponent. Without delag you have to aim in front and that's why ppl tend to use timenudge in games which are not unlagged.


So this is one of the things I think IS affected in SG. I have had to aim in front of players to hit them. Granted, this is when I have a ping of 150+ but according to your assertion, I should never have to aim ahead. Just saying that for me (at least when playing with 150+ ping) not having timenudge is really harmful. Before trying out timenudge in SG, I would play with cl_timenudge=0 on any server. I found that after making cl_timenudge=-15 or so on high ping servers, it made the game feel more normal (as in more like a real ping of 0).

In my opinion, timenudge can cause strange (maybe jerky effects) only if the players have similar ping. If not, I wouldn't blame a players teleporting/jerkiness to anything other than the ping differences between the players.
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???

Postby Bart202 » Sun May 29, 2011 7:49 am

Howdy,

I tried timenudge often too, especially on RAWHIDE, And if you believe me or not. Normally I lagg on Alamo,Darkfort, etc(With Ping of 90-100), cause i have an old PC, Its of 2005 I think. And now when i activated timenudge -50 all was good, no lagg, and I was better. :) So why don't use it?
But i have to say sometimes when you see guys and you shoot them you don't hit them, cause the timenudge don't agree with the screen.
There is a negative Point for example with Sharps.

-->For guys with Pings like 20 isn't it usefull, but i think for Pings like mine it's usefull.

Is it allowed on Servers like jeuxlinux.fr or RAWHIDE? Normally? What think the admins of this servers?
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Postby Mart Duggan » Sun May 29, 2011 10:36 pm

Time nudge does not affect the server. As far as I know there is no way to determine if a player is using time nudge. Whether or not it is moral is one question but it is not illegal as it cannot be proven. I have not seen any evidence of a player getting unfair advantage from time nudge. As far as I am concerned if you like it use it.
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Postby moRtem » Mon May 30, 2011 8:29 am

Mart Duggan wrote:As far as I know there is no way to determine if a player is using time nudge. Whether or not it is moral is one question but it is not illegal as it cannot be proven.


/rcon status

(or serverstatus..)


/quit
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