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Postby ReD NeCKersoN » Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:57 am

Thanks for everyone's suggestions. If I don't use your idea, it's because it hurts the maps performance OR it's just too much work for a level that isn't properly designed to start with. It's not because your idea isn't good. :wink:
I've decided to move the defenders spawn (per mortem) for the first test, with a small twist. I've also tweaked the robbers spawn just a bit, also with a twist. Bug fixes & some visual improvements too. Hopefully available soon.
Last edited by ReD NeCKersoN on Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sucalakafufu » Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:26 am

ReD NeCKersoN wrote:Thanks for everyone's suggestions. If I don't use your idea, it's because it hurts the maps performance OR it's just too much work for a level that isn't properly designed to start with. It's not because your idea isn't good. :wink:
I've decided to move the defenders spawn (per mortem) for the first test, with a smal twist. I've also tweaked the robbers spawn just a bit, also with a twist. Bug fixes & some visual improvements too. Hopefully available soon.


sweet! cant wait to test it :)
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Postby moRtem » Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:52 pm

ReD NeCKersoN wrote:I've decided to move the defenders spawn (per mortem) for the first test, with a small twist. I've also tweaked the robbers spawn just a bit, also with a twist. Bug fixes & some visual improvements too. Hopefully available soon.


looking forward to test it -- any possibility to get this uploaded on one of the 1.1-beta-test-servers?


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Postby SmokeyBacon » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:18 pm

I dont see any current problem with the process of robbing the underground bank - if an attacker gets a move on they can blow the rock wall before defenders arrive en masse. Then take the rope up to the shack, dart behind the house and use the fallen tree. Therefore I think removing the fallen tree would be a bad idea, as it provides a quick exit with minimal exposure for BOTH banks.

However robbing the main bank (with the wooden door) is pretty predictable. Defenders camp behind the small wall and can easily take out anyone running up the tunnel, as well as anyone behind the 2 small barrels. I think a third route fromt the defending spawn needs to be placed, perhaps one which leads up to area near the water tower? Maybe a small cliff path which comes out above the water tower, and players can then jump onto the tower itself. The tower is a little used sniping spot anyway, so utilising it this way would be good.
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Postby Pardner » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:42 pm

SmokeyBacon wrote:I dont see any current problem with the process of robbing the underground bank - if an attacker gets a move on they can blow the rock wall before defenders arrive en masse.

If a defender goes rambo style they can get there pretty fast as well:
-spawn on the cabin porch
-jump from porch railing to fallen tree, thus crossing the canyon
-jump down to the railroad bridge
-shoot attackers rounding the cavern corner


SmokeyBacon wrote:Defenders camp behind the small wall and can easily take out anyone running up the tunnel, as well as anyone behind the 2 small barrels.

hmmmmm maybe raising the terrain by the small wall would prevent players from camping there:
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Making a third escape point by carving a tunnel in the terrain sounds easy, but it is one of the more difficult things in mapping :oops:

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Postby ReD NeCKersoN » Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:31 am

I haven't removed the fallen tree & only moved spawns. I just tested with 20 bots. Seems there will still be a mad dash to the upper tunnel. Well, for bots at least. There's also less risk for defenders to reach the lower money now & they can do it just as quickly. Sigh.

I just know this will turn into a nightmare for me, but I'm looking to see if I can add some new areas or tunnels in order to move the defender spawn points further. (I'll need all of my skill & lots of luck.) Btw, adding a hole so that the tower can be reached by robbers probably isn't going to happen. It's an fps killer.

@mortem: I can make a test version available as soon as I have something worth testing. As of now, I don't think it is.
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Postby ReD NeCKersoN » Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:14 am

I had a major setback due to BSPC compiler limitations for bot support. This held me up for weeks! But it seems I may have found a solution & finally got the bots to function again. Therefore, I shall resume work! :D

I have added a new area for the defenders spawn, in a cave behind the cabin, but I'm not satisfied with it. I'll work on this over the holidays & maybe we'll try to give the map a test run pretty soon.
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Postby ReD NeCKersoN » Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:54 am

I know this isn't a perfect solution, but it's easier for me since the new area is OUTSIDE of the current map.
(You just can't know how hard it is to make changes within the current play area on a level that's this screwed up!)
[thumb=http://forum.smokin-guns.org/userpix/19_1_1.jpg][timg]19_1_1.jpg[/timg][/thumb] [thumb=http://forum.smokin-guns.org/userpix/19_2_1.jpg][timg]19_2_1.jpg[/timg][/thumb] [thumb=http://forum.smokin-guns.org/userpix/19_3_1.jpg][timg]19_3_1.jpg[/timg][/thumb] [thumb=http://forum.smokin-guns.org/userpix/19_4_1.jpg][timg]19_4_1.jpg[/timg][/thumb]
The idea is that the defenders spawn is further away, in the red circle of shot 4. Robbers can beat the defenders to the underground gold now. Also, robbers can emerge from the upper tunnel (in theory) before defenders are fully set to camp that area. The good news is this: I can easily lengthen the defenders spawn cave or even tie it in somewhere else. AS LONG AS THE NEW AREAS ARE OUTSIDE OF THE CURRENT PLAYING AREA! Or, if this new area is no good, I can possibly scrap this change & make a new cave somewhere else. But choices will be limited.

To be included in the next beta release, or possibly sooner.

EDIT: Nothing else has changed about the map.
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Postby Joe Kari » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:31 am

Bspc is a bit outdated, I have had some trouble with it too, so half of my map is botclipped. I understand that a map with a terrain like coyote bluff is even worse than the flat terrain of Alamo ! I limit as much as possible the bot area, but I try to make them able to see (and shoot) forbidden area.

About the map, IMHO, I think that only one way out for defender isn't enough... Maybe adding one or more others tunnels that lead elsewhere should be fine.
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Postby ReD NeCKersoN » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:48 am

Joe Kari wrote:Bspc is a bit outdated, I have had some trouble with it too

Here's an updated bspc.exe by Torhu. I had forgotten about this, but stumbled across it on my hard drive. We should include it in our next mappers tool pack.
http://www.mediafire.com/?zijn1wzkh3m

Taken from an archived, private section of the forum:
torhu wrote:I've doubled the number of allowed brush sides and planes.

Code: Select all
#define MAX_MAPFILE_PLANES   512000  // was 256000
#define MAX_MAPFILE_BRUSHES   (65535*2) // was 65535
#define MAX_MAPFILE_BRUSHSIDES   (MAX_MAPFILE_BRUSHES*8)


Let me know if this solves the problem. It makes bspc use maybe 200 MB more memory. And it exceeds the win95 executable image limit of 256 MB, so it won't run unless you have win98 or later. Just in case someone complains... ;)
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Postby /dev/random » Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:09 pm

Are these all changes to bspc? Again there is no Unix version, shame on you! :roll:
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Postby Pardner » Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:52 pm

ReD NeCKersoN wrote:Here's an updated bspc.exe by Torhu. I had forgotten about this, but stumbled across it on my hard drive. We should include it in our next mappers tool pack.
http://www.mediafire.com/?zijn1wzkh3m


Maybe Torhu can answer this, does the bspc.exe need any surrounding DLLs? we could place this inside the "*/Smokin' Guns/smokinguns/compiler/" directory in the next mapping tools release.
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Postby torhu » Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:48 am

I found the original patch for bspc, from 2006. Not very exciting...

No problem including it, there are no extra dependencies.
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Postby Pardner » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:05 am

great thanks. Then I will stick it in the compiler fold in the next tools release
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Postby mLy! » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:18 pm

Some small changes that would be nice in this map:

1) make it impossible to go up the defenders spawn

2)make it impossible to go up the little cabin near exit (where the dynamite case is)

3) remove the walls between second gold and robbers spawn cave exit
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