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Mouse Sensitivity

Postby Sucalakafufu » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:13 am

Is it just me? Or is the mouse sensitivity really high compared to 1.0?
I have tried to get the mouse to feel the way it does in 1.0 but it seems super fast at any setting and really slow when the sensitivity is turned all the way down.
When I connect to a 1.0 server it seems back to normal. Did something with the mouse change in 1.1?
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Re: Mouse Sensitivity

Postby Pardner » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:56 am

Sucalakafufu wrote:When I connect to a 1.0 server it seems back to normal. Did something with the mouse change in 1.1?

When you connect to a 1.0 server, all the 1.1 pk3s are disguarded and therefore you are running 1.0 again. I think the IoQ3's mouse smooth and acceleration was merged into the 1.1b2 patch. Wait for Tequila, he will give a good answer.

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Postby Tequila » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:15 am

:?
Missed the thread sorry ;)

You should know ioQ3 based engines are using SDL mouse API and then can provide very different mouse feeling. Many players complain about this change in ioQ3 but now the engine feeling should be the same even if you're playing under Windows, MacOSX or Linux... but I may be wrong as I didn't test.

Btw you should know there is now a "Quake-Live style" acceleration which you can tune more than the "Classic style" (the ioQ3 default one). Go to "Settings" -> "Controls" -> "Misc/Chat" from the main menu. You can select the "Acceleration style". You should know "Mouse accelaration" factor and "Acceleration offset" are only for "Quake-Live style".

Also to help understanding everything, here is what you can find in the README file about Quake-Live style:
Code: Select all
QuakeLive mouse acceleration (patch and this text written by TTimo from id)
  I've been using an experimental mouse acceleration code for a while, and
  decided to make it available to everyone. Don't be too worried if you don't
  understand the explanations below, this is mostly intended for advanced
  players:
  To enable it, set cl_mouseAccelStyle 1 (0 is the default/legacy behavior)

  New style is controlled with 3 cvars:

  sensitivity
  cl_mouseAccel
  cl_mouseAccelOffset

  The old code (cl_mouseAccelStyle 0) can be difficult to calibrate because if
  you have a base sensitivity setup, as soon as you set a non zero acceleration
  your base sensitivity at low speeds will change as well. The other problem
  with style 0 is that you are stuck on a square (power of two) acceleration
  curve.

  The new code tries to solve both problems:

  Once you setup your sensitivity to feel comfortable and accurate enough for
  low mouse deltas with no acceleration (cl_mouseAccel 0), you can start
  increasing cl_mouseAccel and tweaking cl_mouseAccelOffset to get the
  amplification you want for high deltas with little effect on low mouse deltas.

  cl_mouseAccel is a power value. Should be >= 1, 2 will be the same power curve
  as style 0. The higher the value, the faster the amplification grows with the
  mouse delta.

  cl_mouseAccelOffset sets how much base mouse delta will be doubled by
  acceleration. The closer to zero you bring it, the more acceleration will
  happen at low speeds. This is also very useful if you are changing to a new
  mouse with higher dpi, if you go from 500 to 1000 dpi, you can divide your
  cl_mouseAccelOffset by two to keep the same overall 'feel' (you will likely
  gain in precision when you do that, but that is not related to mouse
  acceleration).

  Mouse acceleration is tricky to configure, and when you do you'll have to
  re-learn your aiming. But you will find that it's very much forth it in the
  long run.

  If you try the new acceleration code and start using it, I'd be very
  interested by your feedback.
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Postby Sucalakafufu » Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:26 am

cool. yah i saw that acceleration feature :)
well i guess its just i dont really like how the mouse feels compared to in SG 1.0

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Postby moRtem » Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:24 pm

Tequila wrote:You should know ioQ3 based engines are using SDL mouse API and then can provide very different mouse feeling. Many players complain about this change in ioQ3 but now the engine feeling should be the same even if you're playing under Windows, MacOSX or Linux... but I may be wrong as I didn't test.


Like i told you already before you implemented SDL, this will make a lot of players stay in old 1.0.

Everyone who played q3-engine-games for a while will hate this new feeling, since a) he needs to find his settings again, b) a lot of players can't even find fine settings with SDL.

(I personally tried ~1 week to find my settings with SDL in OA, and it felt just.. wrong)

That's aswell what OpenArena-Team realised, and that's why they provide 2 executables for download (one with SDL-mouse-input, one without)


Last but not least, i think you'll find more Smokin'-Guns-players who play different q3-engine-games at the same time, than Smokin'-Guns who play on multiple platforms.

--

Apart from that, mouse-acceleration had been implemented ever since (/cl_mouseaccel)


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Postby Tequila » Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:23 am

moRtem wrote:Like i told you already before you implemented SDL, this will make a lot of players stay in old 1.0.

Well I didn't implemented SDL :P I just backport Smokin'Guns to ioQuake3 SDK to get all their improvements with our loving game.

moRtem wrote:Everyone who played q3-engine-games for a while will hate this new feeling, since a) he needs to find his settings again, b) a lot of players can't even find fine settings with SDL.

I guess you're only talking about windows players. So, this sounds like a request to merge support of DirectX Input from SG 1.0, isn't it ?

moRtem wrote:(I personally tried ~1 week to find my settings with SDL in OA, and it felt just.. wrong)

That's aswell what OpenArena-Team realised, and that's why they provide 2 executables for download (one with SDL-mouse-input, one without)

Did you try the "Quake-Live style" I merged from ioQ3 ? This style is clearly provided for advanced players like you pretend to be. I would really appreciate any feedback about that from an experienced user.
And I would especially appreciate any good feedback from you as you seems concerned ;)


moRtem wrote:Last but not least, i think you'll find more Smokin'-Guns-players who play different q3-engine-games at the same time, than Smokin'-Guns who play on multiple platforms.

You may be right but that's not really the purpose... I think SDL has been adopted for maintainability purpose and to get rid of any proprietary library dependency. It's clear for me that Opensource developers are not always welcomed by players, thanks to Redmond policies. But you players really need to be fair-play with opensource developers and try our point of view
;)

moRtem wrote:Apart from that, mouse-acceleration had been implemented ever since (/cl_mouseaccel)

Yes, but please try the TTimo's "Quake-Live style" which is completely new and only available in Quake Live! and in ioQuake3 engine since few weeks...

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Postby moRtem » Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:40 pm

Tequila wrote:Did you try the "Quake-Live style" I merged from ioQ3 ?


Not yet. Will try soon hopefully.

It's clear for me that Opensource developers are not always welcomed by players, thanks to Redmond policies. But you players really need to be fair-play with opensource developers and try our point of view
;)


Whatever game i played, i usually found my mouse-settings within 10 mins. With SDL i gave up after ~1 week, because it just never feels right.

New players probably don't have that problem since they need to get used to mouse-settings anyhow. But more experienced players usually have a certain mouse-input and want to keep it, since they been using it for years.

This got nothing to do with being stubborn, or not giving opensource a chance.


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Postby Tequila » Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:24 pm

Hey just find some related stuff to the windows mouse input problem.
First, I read carefully a SDL bug report made by Tim Angus from ioQ3 about this problem: Poor SDL 1.2 win32 mouse input
So, to resume, now it seems to be fixed in 1.2.13 SDL dll which is provided with current v1.1b2 engine... But 'cause of that SDL issue, ioQ3 engine was always trying to use directx by default in place of windib video driver. This last driver is "weirdly" known to provide a mouse control feeling near to the legacy idq3 engine feeling. Why "weirdly", just because this is the video driver, not the mouse driver...
This is stupid, but the video driver selection can be forced using "SDL_VIDEO_DRIVER" env var... Btw, I searched the code, and I found windib driver will be used if you set "in_mouse" cvar to "-1"... by default it is "1" for directx.

So please, can any windows tester can try the beta engine setting "in_mouse" cvar to "-1" and tell us how it works ?

Of course, this is not related to "Quake Live style", so first try "Legacy style" with in_mouse set to "-1".

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Postby moRtem » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:51 pm

just for the note:

I tried 1.1b2 now and i didn't notice ANY change in mouse-input (played with the same settings as in 1.0 and other q3-engine-games)

But: i played on 1.0-server jeuxlinux (is this of relevance in terms of this topic?)

Anyhow, since 1.2.14 SDL-dll causes weird problems when doing ALT-TAB i switched back to 1.2.13 for now.


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Postby Sucalakafufu » Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:13 am

moRtem wrote:just for the note:

I tried 1.1b2 now and i didn't notice ANY change in mouse-input (played with the same settings as in 1.0 and other q3-engine-games)

But: i played on 1.0-server jeuxlinux (is this of relevance in terms of this topic?)

Anyhow, since 1.2.14 SDL-dll causes weird problems when doing ALT-TAB i switched back to 1.2.13 for now.


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if u played with the beta client on a 1.0 server then the beta client will use the 1.0 files. which means that you were basically playing 1.0 which explains why ur settings were the same ;)

at least im pretty sure thats how it works :)
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Postby Tequila » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:43 am

Sorry, but you are wrong Sucalakafufu.

About mouse settings, they are used by the "engine" part, not by the "game" part. So this means mouse sub-system is different at the moment you started a v1.1 engine based on ioQ3, and so based on SDL libraries. The proof: moRtem don't have the weird problems when he uses the 1.2.13 SDL dll... so he is really using SDL for mouse subsystem.

Btw moRtem, when you're saying "i didn't notice ANY change in mouse-input", did you use the "set in_mouse -1" tweak ? This is just to be clear.

Afaik, playing on 1.0 server with last 1.1 engines may only change the way buy key will react as it was tweaked by torhu.

moRtem, can you try with v1.1b1 engine and tell us if you still have the "weird problems" ? About the SDL.dll library, where did you get it ? I guess the 1.2.14 was the one we provided, but about the 1.2.13 ? Is that the official libsdl.org one or the v1.36 ioQ3 release one ?

Did anyone else tried the "set in_mouse -1" setting ?
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Postby Sucalakafufu » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:58 am

@Tequila: ahh wrong again :( well thanks for the clarification

i will try to test the set in_mouse -1 setting once the nation tourney is over.. until then i am keeping 1.0 only installed :)
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Postby moRtem » Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:50 pm

Tequila wrote:Btw moRtem, when you're saying "i didn't notice ANY change in mouse-input", did you use the "set in_mouse -1" tweak ? This is just to be clear.


i just looked up my current setting and it's indeed set to in_mouse -1

moRtem, can you try with v1.1b1 engine and tell us if you still have the "weird problems" ?


please check the according topic i created a few days ago:
viewtopic.php?t=1987

Since it's affecting other q3-engine-games aswell i guess it's not "your" (SG's) fault.

About the SDL.dll library, where did you get it ? I guess the 1.2.14 was the one we provided, but about the 1.2.13 ? Is that the official libsdl.org one or the v1.36 ioQ3 release one ?


1.2.14 is the one you included your 1.1b2 and the older SDL is the one which got fixed by ioq3 (355 KB) -- now that you ask, i am not sure if that ioq3-fixed one is really 1.2.13 or even an older version, since i can't access the ioq3-site at the very moment.


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Postby Sucalakafufu » Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:13 am

so now with 1.1b3 mouse seems and in_mouse -1 it seems that i am able to get a better mouse feel... but somehow 1.1b3 or should i say the new SDL.dll does not like my mouse :/

with Tequila's help i was able to get it running instead of skipping but for some reason it still wont go completely smooth... if anyone knows how or why this is happening, that would be great! :D
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Postby mLy! » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:04 pm

I tryed 1.14b again, with the sdl file and the mouse input lag is still there.

Is there a new fix available?
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