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How about you don't spawn with a free pistol?

Postby torhu » Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:24 am

Allright, I have different suggestion for how to make the rifles more interesting. Part of what makes the use of akimbo pistols so common is that you always spawn with a pistol. So to get two, you only need to buy one more.

But what if you would spawn with only a knife, but a bit more money instead? Like 30 dollars. That would enable you to buy two Remington pistols, or one rifle or shotgun. Two Remingtons don't have all that much firepower, so buying a rifle would be a good option.

This will obviously mean more time spent buying weapons before you're ready to play. You'll be more vulnerable to spawn killers, too. And if you buy a rifle first, what do you buy next? A pistol? :P

I'll try to code this up in a couple of days, and I hope there's some interest in trying it out on the test servers. :)
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Postby Sucalakafufu » Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:27 am

sounds very.... interesting

i wouldn't mind trying it :)
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Postby Ugly » Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:54 am

Would be great for BR, it would make the attacker's job a lot easier.

For deathmatch it would mean that binding keys for buying would be very important.

Sounds like a good plan to me though.
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Postby mLy! » Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:58 pm

I don't like it.

With the current system, you have to 'upgrade' as you play.
You start with the worst weapon, and as you kill enemies or get the moneybag, you can upgrade to schoffield, peacemaker and shotguns.
And you also have to save a little money each time, in case you dont kill anybody or the team loses.

With this new system, all this is gone.
Instead of making it more tactical and interesting, this is making it more boring and dull. You can always buy a good weapon no matter how bad you or your team is playing.
And you might aswell remove the remington pistol and schoffield then, because nobody will buy it when you start with 30 $



Can we please stop changing things that don't need to be changed and start testing stuff that DOES need to be changed??
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Postby Pardner » Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:28 pm

mLy! wrote:Can we please stop changing things that don't need to be changed and start testing stuff that DOES need to be changed??

You have been complaining about stuff being broken for weeks, but the thing is there has been a Trac site on Sourceforge for weeks as well.
http://trac.smokin-guns.org/report/1
Torhu has been addressing a ticket that has been posted on said Trac site. Maybe if you created a ticket addressing what you want fixed, maybe it will get addressed. (Note: the more descriptive your ticket is, the more likely it is to get addressed)
Last edited by Tequila on Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Fixed Trac site URL

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Postby mLy! » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:12 pm

I thoughd that site is for bugs in the beta.
I dont see how that is related to this discussion.



Pardner wrote:
mLy! wrote:Can we please stop changing things that don't need to be changed and start testing stuff that DOES need to be changed??

You have been complaining about stuff being broken for weeks, but the thing is there has been a Trac site on Sourceforge for weeks as well.
http://trac.smokin-guns.org/report/1
Torhu has been addressing a ticket that has been posted on said Trac site. Maybe if you created a ticket addressing what you want fixed, maybe it will get addressed. (Note: the more descriptive your ticket is, the more likely it is to get addressed)
Last edited by Tequila on Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Fixed Trac site URL
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Postby ChainLightnin' » Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:51 pm

Remmys and Schofs load fast, are cheap and good at close range, and you can't start with a complete arsenal, even with $30. I think it would be fun to start with a Winchester sometimes. I'll give it a try!
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Postby Sucalakafufu » Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:12 pm

mLy! wrote:Can we please stop changing things that don't need to be changed and start testing stuff that DOES need to be changed??


what needs to be changed is all based on opinion. the SG team has the final say on what really needs to be changed or not. :) i think we should at least try what the SG team wants to test. especially if it is based off of a ticket :)
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Re: How about you don't spawn with a free pistol?

Postby moRtem » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:33 pm

torhu wrote:Allright, I have different suggestion for how to make the rifles more interesting.[...]


It's not the prize that makes the rifles a not-to-buy weapon.

That weapon suffers effectivity -> Pistols/Akimbo are better in EVERY range.

Now that doesn't mean that you should immediately spoil the weapon's accuracy by adding a spread of 50000000, since that isn't the core of the problem. Like i stated several times before: to avoid randomness and get the weapon balanced you need to make certain weapons effective in certain ranges. Now there are two ways to do so: 1) spoil the accuracy by adding spread -- 2) reducing damage on range.

Since first way is realised by implementing randomized factors, it is an absolute killer of competetive games, so i would recommend to choose the second path.


Can we please stop changing things that don't need to be changed and start testing stuff that DOES need to be changed??


fully agree here


You have been complaining about stuff being broken for weeks, but the thing is there has been a Trac site on Sourceforge for weeks as well.


No offense, but annulating someone's opinion by telling him to post it on a different platform is just odd.

Torhu has been addressing a ticket that has been posted on said Trac site.


Posting a ticket doesn't necessarily mean that it is worth to be worked on, right?

Maybe if you created a ticket addressing what you want fixed, maybe it will get addressed. (Note: the more descriptive your ticket is, the more likely it is to get addressed)


Instead of telling everyone to spam your ticket-system with random suggestions of how to make the game better, you should try to find a solution within this forum first. And while you are searching a solution i'd additionally suggest to listen to players who actually got some ingame-experience - especially with clanmatches.

The main-thing to be fixed is game-balance right now, and this is a complex system. So it would probably be a smart idea to think about it, before messing with it.


Last point: The Weapon-System needs to be seen as a full Set of different weapons with different parameters where every weapon got its strengths and weaknesses. When the whole set of Weapon-Parameters doesn't make sense, you won't fix it by changing startmoney and/or adjust prices.


No offense, i really admire the work done by the SG-team and i aswell admire the input given by players. But this discussion can only be lead with experienced players (ideally also in clan-matches), since new players or less-skilled players tend to not see the real problems we are facing.


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Postby DeUgli » Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:56 am

Ugly wrote:Would be great for BR, it would make the attacker's job a lot easier.
Yes, I think it might be an equalizer for BR, for the team that has gotten behind and can't armor up much.
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