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Would you like Smokin'Guns to come with a CTF-like gametype in a future release ?

Poll ended at Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:26 am

Yes, please, please, please
10
38%
Yes, it could be fun
12
46%
No, don't loose your time
2
8%
I really don't know
2
8%
 
Total votes : 26

New mode request: Steal The Bags (and about modes generally)

Postby dowoshek » Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:49 am

This time I'd like to put few words about THE GAME - and I mean game as a set of rules and not some fancy cool graphical stuff or super-duper engine features :) Just the thing that makes fun.

So... we have traditional DM and TDM for frags collectors (I personally find these "no aim" games a bit boring in every FPS) and BR for objective lovers. There's also Dual, but is anybody really interested in this mode...? IMHO, truly speaking, it is an already dead part of SG and could be completely removed as well.

And my question is: where the hell my beloved CTF gone? :?
Why couldn't we play something like BR mode with permanent respawns? Why couldn't we get some continuous action and fun without waiting for minutes for few campers to finish the round?
So... let's get to the point: I wonder how many of you guys would like to see this kind of action in SG and what are your suggestions and opinions about it. Let's discuss it and give as much comments as we can, so the dev-team could clearly see that "WE WANT CTF-like ACTION!" 8) :lol:

My proposition: STB mode (for Steal The Bags).
I'll point only main differences from the traditional CTF.
1. Each team starts with 5 bags in their base.
2. One player can steal and carry one bag at once.
3. Any number of bags can be stolen at once - I mean: if a good team will cooperate and successfully invade opponents base, 5 of them could get 5 bags and escape.
4. The game is finished if one of the team will have all bags in their base OR the timelimit is reached OR the limit of robberies by one team will be reached.
5. As a result of point 4: what matters is the current number of our bags in the base and (as in traditional CTF) the number of robberies we made. In scoreboard it could be simply visualized as graphical bags (current state in base) and number (how many times we brought a new bag).
6. Players can steal bags only from their opponent's base.
7. If player carrying a bag will be killed, the bag will be left on the ground OR automatically returned to the previous base (possibly choice for server admin).
8. Team will get no point (to number of robberies) for returning the bag that was stolen from their base (so the engine must remember what was the last base every bag was in last time - bags could be colorized appropriately after placing in new base).

I hope I didn't forget mentioning sth :) So... this way we have not only continuous gameplay without boring minutes of waiting but also there should be no more "already won" matches (10-1, 8-2, etc) when one good team smashes the other poor one - because when a very good team will cope a very poor one the match will be probably finished very soon when the good team will have all the bags in their base (no more pointless waiting to reach 10-0).
And, BTW, imagine a new player in BR mode that is playing for the poor team against the very good one... yup, he is NOT PLAYING - HE IS WAITING AND WATCHING ALL THE TIME UNTIL 10-0! :x In STB there's no such situation: no waiting at all (permanent respawn) and no irritation with pointless matches. Totally newbie-friendly mode! 8)
Hmm... enough said from me - I hope there're more guys thinking my way ;)

Tequila's edition: Added a poll
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Postby Tequila » Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:22 am

:D
Great post dowoshek.
And yes as we are next to the beta staging end, this is time to think to the future ;)

So don't expect such new stuff with the next release, but you should know we will now be able to release new Smokin'Guns versions in 2 or 3 months if needed (maybe less if really needed ;)).

So such feature request will be surely considered for a Smokin'Guns spring release :D

As you, I personally like the Q3A CTF mode and I know other team members would to see such new stuff.

Btw don't say duel mode is dead :P Duel mode is really fun to play with one or 2 friends and it is based on little good maps very different than all other big maps. That's always fun to change your way of playing for a rendez-vous ;)

About the rules you gave, I think they are not bad. Btw I think we can also have something really new for such CTF like mode, like catching the chicken (maybe a running chicken :D).And why not a mode with no weapon but fists, foot and stones where health would be something like consciouness level, then no need to respawn :P when you just lose your consciousness for few seconds, releasing the chicken you're catching, giving a chance to your opponent to catch it and get it back :D

Another gametype could be the Last Man Standing one or Shot The Sheriff one.

Btw, let's starting to vote for a CTF-like mode...
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Postby Slizer » Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:59 pm

I like duel :( It would be really good with a ladder...
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Postby gunner joe » Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:33 pm

its like in cod2 it would be awsome
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Postby dowoshek » Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:59 pm

Tequila wrote:About the rules you gave, I think they are not bad. Btw I think we can also have something really new for such CTF like mode, like catching the chicken (maybe a running chicken :D).And why not a mode with no weapon but fists, foot and stones where health would be something like consciouness level, then no need to respawn :P when you just lose your consciousness for few seconds, releasing the chicken you're catching, giving a chance to your opponent to catch it and get it back :D

Another gametype could be the Last Man Standing one or Shot The Sheriff one.

Chicken you say... yeah, we can have all the crazy modes we want as long as somebody will create it in his/her sick ;) brain and someone else will put it in code-lines, but let's start with the basic ones :lol:

And about Duel mode - I didn't mean it's not fun at all... I mean it is not interesting for most of players, especially newcomers. It is definitely not the kind of mode that would let us gain more new players - we need blood and action... and I haven't seen nobody playing it online for a longer time. And to be honest - it was boring also for me after playing it few times :( But let's not talk about what we should remove... adding new mode is the main subject.
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Postby Pardner » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:15 pm

I have always wanted to create a new gametype for SG complete with ALL new maps. For that reason I feel this should not be considered for 1.1 but heavily considered for a future release. I was afraid of mentioning CTF for the reason that CTF is a lot like BR. Let me add you your idea's with my idea if SG CTF:

dowoshek wrote:I'll point only main differences from the traditional CTF.
1. Each team starts with 5 bags in their base.


I was thinking something similar, but each money bag is in a different location. Each money bag has a different money value ($10,$20,$50,$100) depending how far into the enemy's base they are located. The game ends when a team hits a money capture limit (server side cvar).

dowoshek wrote:7. If player carrying a bag will be killed, the bag will be left on the ground OR automatically returned to the previous base (possibly choice for server admin).

or choice of the mapper through target_remove_powerups :D

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Postby dowoshek » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:45 pm

Pardner wrote:
dowoshek wrote:I'll point only main differences from the traditional CTF.
1. Each team starts with 5 bags in their base.


I was thinking something similar, but each money bag is in a different location. Each money bag has a different money value ($10,$20,$50,$100) depending how far into the enemy's base they are located. The game ends when a team hits a money capture limit (server side cvar).

That sounds interesting, but we must agree, that what SG needs now mostly are new players... and the more complicated rules - the less fun for newbies. It's already difficult for them to find one of two banks in BR (btw, i'd like to remind my request of arrows directing to banks before robbing, not only to escape after). And what if they'll have many hidden banks with different values... that will be much more confusing. Of course it sounds very interesting as an additional mode, but let's have something typical now (BR and Duel should be enough for experimentators for now) - let it be similar to CTF plus additional fun-staff with clear and understandable "at first-sight" rules.
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Postby ReD NeCKersoN » Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:02 pm

1) A basic CTF mode would probably be easiest to implement. The engine already supports it afaik. We'd only need two new static models for the flags. Like Civil War era "North vs South" of the 1860's. Or, for a better fit with our post civil war weaponry, The Spanish-American War of 1898? Then some suitable, new maps to reflect the setting. (Or, less likely, map conversions.) Probably little or no coding for this?

2) For anything fancier or involving multiple bags, I believe the coders would have some work to do but maybe nothing too difficult? Map conversions should be easy for this & any new maps wouldn't need to look like any particular theme.

3) "Chase the Chicken" would likely be the most difficult & require a moving model (bot?) with lots of animations. Probably extra animations for the player models too. Good idea, but we'll have to wait for a very good modeller/animator before even considering this one. (Would be great to have Free for All & Team modes for this one!)

The breakdown on work for these proposals:
1) Very easy for coders? Lot's & lot's of work for mappers. (We only have 2 active dev mappers atm with limited time.)
2) Some work for coders? Easier time for mappers?
3) Not do-able without a modeller/animator. Easy for mappers? Lot's of work for coders?
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Postby moRtem » Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:46 pm

I like the suggestion given by dowoshek in his first post.

And i aswell agree with his opinion about duel. In my opinion it is a very boring and pointless mode.
But as long as ppl have fun in duel (like tequila and some others who replied here), it would be stupid to remove it, or stop the support for it.


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Postby Pardner » Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:01 pm

ReD NeCKersoN wrote:1) A basic CTF mode would probably be easiest to implement. The engine already supports it afaik. We'd only need two new static models for the flags. Like Civil War era "North vs South" of the 1860's. Or, for a better fit with our post civil war weaponry, The Spanish-American War of 1898? Then some suitable, new maps to reflect the setting. (Or, less likely, map conversions.) Probably little or no coding for this?


I have no problem with this at all! Union Vs. Confederate CTF would be great!
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Postby gunner joe » Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:25 am

hahah red neckerson i had same idea like you i love civil war . :lol:
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Postby ReD NeCKersoN » Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:13 am

I'm not trying to shift the focus of dowoshek's topic. His ideas are great imo.
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Postby Sucalakafufu » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:01 am

i would definitely be up for some testing of this type of mode :D
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Postby dowoshek » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:12 am

One more thing should be taken care of in this kind of mode: Gatling Guns. Too many of them at once could easily ruin the gameplay, so the easiest way would be to remove this weapon in this mode completely. But we could get much more fun by allowing a limited number of gatlings per team (depending on size and scheme of map). On a typical map one gatling for team would be fine. Also this option could be controlled by server admins to achieve a completely different gameplays.

There could be two ways to provide gatling for team (the 1st one is my favorite):
- the first N players who stole one of bags would get gatling as a reward
OR
- N gatlings could be placed near base just at the beginning of match, ready to use

Of course, after placing every gatling could be used and moved by every player. Also could be stolen by opponents. So nothing special in here, but one thing should be changed - gatlings shouldn't disappear when left on the ground without setting.

Let's say it is point 9 to the list of rules in my first post :)
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Postby mLy! » Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:44 pm

Bad idea tbh.
First team to get point get gatlin: strongest/leadin team gets advantage over slower team? -> hello 10-0

Placing gatlins near base is also stupid: newbies/campers will use them.

Best idea is to limit gatlins to 1 per team. At the high price of the gatlin it is not used much and only players that know how to handle it will use it.


dowoshek wrote:There could be two ways to provide gatling for team (the 1st one is my favorite):
- the first N players who stole one of bags would get gatling as a reward
OR
- N gatlings could be placed near base just at the beginning of match, ready to use
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