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Your choice:

Yes, let them 'ESCAPE'
7
41%
No, I like watching fat-ass campers ;)
7
41%
Other (post comment)
3
18%
 
Total votes : 17

Escape option for robbers (BR improvement)

Postby dowoshek » Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:01 pm

Hi,
There's 1 point for defenders after timeout in 1.1.
I'd like to notice 1 weak point of this solution that still remains and suggest additional improvement that could make the gameplay even more smooth and fair.

Imagine 2 lonely robbers alive and 8 defenders waiting for them with 2 minutes to timeout... yes it happens sometimes ;) They feel they have already no chance to rob and also wouldn't like to die and lost their equipment and weapons. So there's still a reason to camp, right? ;) And they probably will do it! :D Because the other option is to rush and die or be kicked by annoyed players watching their fat buttoms sitting in one place for 2 minutes ;) And that's not good vision for both sides. So, my suggestion is to simply let them escape. It could work like:
1. There's an indicator 'ESCAPE' in the scoreboard for every robber (visible only for robbers) that every robber could activate.
2. After EVERY alive robber activate the option round is over.
3. 1 point awarded for defenders.
4. Alive robbers don't lost their equipment but also (maybe?) don't get any money at the beginning of next round.
5. Round is finished in 5 (10?) seconds after every alive robber accept 'escape' option. Just to prevent abusing in 'hot' situations.

This'd also add more realistic feeling to the whole robbery story ;)
Last edited by dowoshek on Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Floppy » Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:40 pm

Sounds like waving the white flag :)
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Postby Pardner » Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:59 pm

The chances of a camping yeller robber being an experienced player is pretty slim. I think most experienced players know how to maneuver around the map and try to get some kills.

Most of the camping yeller robbers are the inexperienced players who are new to the game. These are the same inexperienced players who do not know how to vote or chat; I don't think they will know how to press the "Run away" button.

If we did implement something like this, then I think the alive robbers should spawn next round with zero dollars, other wise it would be easy to get dual S&Ws while the robbers who died will only have a single S&W.

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Postby dowoshek » Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:02 pm

Floppy wrote:Sounds like waving the white flag :)

No, it is like saying: "I'll be back!" with more fellas 8)

Pardner wrote:Most of the camping yeller robbers are the inexperienced players who are new to the game. These are the same inexperienced players who do not know how to vote or chat; I don't think they will know how to press the "Run away" button.

Sorry but you are wrong. They are usually old players (like Olee, Muffin, Talha... and so on) and if you 'yell' at them to not camp they answer usually: "it's 8vs1, what else can i do?". I have impression that you don't play this mode too often, am I right? ;) Sorry, but I just don't remember when/if I saw you playing on jeux.
Last edited by dowoshek on Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Sucalakafufu » Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:05 pm

dowoshek wrote:They are usually old players (like Olee, Muffin, Talha... and so on) and if you 'yell' at them to not camp they answer usually: "it's 8vs1, what else can i do?".


You could sneak around. You could try to rob. If they are camping, you can get a few kills. You could hide and "camp" for a few seconds then move on. You could create distractions in order to rob.

You don't have to camp in one spot the whole time. Just saying.

EDIT: If there was an "Escape" button, I would say that the robbers who "Escaped" should spawn with $0 and the same equipment they died with. In other words, if they died with 0 dynamite, they do not spawn with more.
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Postby Juaro Juarez » Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:19 pm

I guess a mixture of all that would be best i think.

First, we could implent that 'escape' button for guys which really have no chance left OR are cowards (So you could say it's a choice of guys that prove That They Have Enough Balls to do that OR which are chickens and run away)
[You could avoid that by adding that point that the whole team has to accept it(like dowoshek said) ]

And second IF you implent that Button,
you NEED NOT to give the escaped guy any stuff.

(BTW... :D Why is never anybody taking my posts in such improvement stuff serious, i never get any answers on my points, it's like just not getting read :D )
-nox-Juaro-

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Postby dowoshek » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:41 am

Juaro Juarez wrote:(BTW... :D Why is never anybody taking my posts in such improvement stuff serious, i never get any answers on my points, it's like just not getting read :D )

If you can't do it on your own you can only have hope that the guys who can will read it and maybe implement a bit of it :wink: Or at least your post will change their implementation a bit. So it's always good to show your ideas but don't expect response for all of your posts - that's the privilege of mighty developers ;)
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Postby Floppy » Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:25 pm

dowoshek wrote: If you can't do it on your own you can only have hope that the guys who can will read it and maybe implement a bit of it :wink: Or at least your post will change their implementation a bit. So it's always good to show your ideas but don't expect response for all of your posts - that's the privilege of mighty developers ;)


Almost like the " CPMA new feature equation" at
http://http://massman.dk/q3/cpma/features.gif

Think i got some cool ideas, but this topic isn't the place to post them ;)
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Postby SmokeyBacon » Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:36 pm

Not sure about this. If anything we need to encourage players to rob more, and this might be detrimental.
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Postby moRtem » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:35 pm

Sorry, but ugly idea.

If campers wouldn't be unbeatable the problem of never-ending rounds due to everyone being scared of moving wouldn't even exist, and thus this idea could be discarded.

--

Instead of working on the roots of this problems (-> camping), you try to cut down the sprouts of this seed.


And a note to the devs: I'd highly recommend you to monitor some of the games on jeuxlinux to notice that camping is a big issue already. There are certain players who sit at places where they are unkillable - round after round. Eventhough you know where they are camping, you are unable to kill them due to campers having a couple of advantages (-> making no noise; being able to aim at your full body; being in shelter, no matter how many bullets you fire at them)

Despite your arguments "sneak up to them", etc. etc. are simply nonsense. This "sneaking" fails as soon as the opponent team got 2 or more campers covering each other, since hardly any map offers enough paths to sneak up to camping opponents.

Last but not least: I am not talking about camping newbies. These are cannon food in any case.


/quit
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Postby dowoshek » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:26 pm

moRtem wrote:Sorry, but ugly idea.

If campers wouldn't be unbeatable the problem of never-ending rounds due to everyone being scared of moving wouldn't even exist, and thus this idea could be discarded.

--

Instead of working on the roots of this problems (-> camping), you try to cut down the sprouts of this seed.

Two words:
1. I don't look at my suggestion >only< as anti-camp solution. I think, that it could be also an interesting feature, addition to gameplay with even a bit of realism ;)
2. I have (my personal) impression, that dev team can't invest much time in total redesigning of the game. We can try suggesting more complex solution, but the question is: who will implement it? And the feature I suggested maybe doesn't look so complex but it surely will be helpful and shouldn't be so time-consuming for coder like eventual complex one.
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Postby moRtem » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:47 pm

i don't quite see the purpose of this feature, besides giving lamers another opportunity to exploit (escaping in situations where they already lost, ...)


/quit
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Postby dowoshek » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:36 am

So, considering pt 2 of my last post, you prefer their camping to giving them 'escape' option... And you are wrong to call them already 'lamers', because if they won't get additional money at start of next round they have no real profit but staying alive (let me remind you that opposing team is awarded 1 point for winning round).

Let me add point 5 to my initial post:
5. Round is finished in 5 (10?) seconds after every alive robber accept 'escape' option. Just to prevent abusing in 'hot' situations.

And BTW, you can always suggest solution that could be implemented as easily as this one and with similar profits... as I said, we can cry that this is not the god-blessed solution but let's speak realistic...
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Postby Joe Kari » Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:05 pm

Just want to be clear about this 2 things :

dowoshek wrote:I have impression that you don't play this mode too often, am I right? Wink Sorry, but I just don't remember when/if I saw you playing on jeux.

And...
mortem wrote:And a note to the devs: I'd highly recommend you to monitor some of the games on jeuxlinux to notice that camping is a big issue already. There are certain players who sit at places where they are unkillable - round after round. Eventhough you know where they are camping, you are unable to kill them due to campers having a couple of advantages (-> making no noise; being able to aim at your full body; being in shelter, no matter how many bullets you fire at them)


Firstly, I don't like people trying to push an idea by saying something like "I play more often the game than you, so I am right".
Most of dev member have played this game for years. This game was existing before SG 1.0, right ?

And secondly, FYI, I play exclusively with random nickname (except if I met another dev team member), and because I'm french, I have played a plenty of time on JeuxLinux... So don't deduce that we do not play because you never saw "Joe Kari", or any other member.

And finally, JeuxLinux is a fine server, yeah, but that's not the only-one-server-where-every-pretending-good-player-should-play-and-if-you-dont-play-there-you-didnt-ever-exist.

Hope you understand.
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Postby dowoshek » Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:43 pm

That's why I asked "am I right?" in the quote you mentioned.

Sorry, but after this kind of comment i can only say:
/quit

;)

PS: I'm not forcing anything, I'm suggesting and trying to post productive arguments (and that's what you forgot about, btw) - if this's not welcomed by you then I can only wish other devs do.
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