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[ReD NeCKersoN]

El vAkonD has programmed a new compiler based on the very latest build of q3map2 for testing in wq3! I have just begun to test this but it seems to do a wonderful job so far. My compile times are dramatically reduced and wq3 specifics, like ladders and particle effects, seem to work fine for me. I am very excited about this and the possibilities it might bring. However, this is an early build and we need to test it before offering it to the rest of the community. I am hopeful we can use some of the advanced effects (like phong shading) that q3 mappers are able to, but only time will tell.

Link Removed.

Please post any errors, mentioning what map you are trying to compile and make the compile log available. In q3map2toolz you can enable logging very easily.

Make sure you remember to set the path to the new compiler in q3map2toolz.
When you try your first compile (if you use WindowsXP) if you get an error like this:

You will need to extract this Link Removed to C:\WINDOWS\system32

Thank you El vAkonD!!!

[ReD NeCKersoN]

I have started a new test map to replace the old one for the begginer's tutorial. In it I have placed ladders, doors and every breakable type that's available in wq3. Metal, wood, cloth, dirt, glass and stone. All of it, including the particle effects and surface sounds, are working correctly with this new compiler. I have only found one weird thing so far but I am not sure if it is the fault of the compiler. The test campfire in wq_CoyoteBluff produces some very strange shadows.


But perhaps I am using the wrong switches or there is a defect in the shader file for the fire. I'll let you know. I am not posting my compile log since it showed no errors. It is my pleasure to announce that phong shading is now possible for wq3 maps and I intend to test terrain blending as well. I will add screenshots to this post tomorrow night when I have more time. Overall, I am extremely pleased with this new toy. Good work El vAkonD!

EDIT:
It's quite strange looking in the editor...


In game the ground and cliffs don't look like blocks anymore!

[Aerasol]

isn't beta testing great? lol- u r on the pulse of productivity- lol- big woot! for me- has always made me feel kinda lazy in a way too... well... beta testing provides a service to the testees (or rather... peope conducting the test... ) as well- it is a win-win situation!- so- beta-testers! test! these ppl need feedback- and- so far feedback has been pretty awesome considering the size of our community- so- peeps- keep up the good work!!!

edit:

lol- to add to this very useless post of mine... am tired... so- delete this post if u will- but- everybody else has a "tester" title on their name... mine is just "end user"... hmm- well- can go covertly into the public forums i guess- but- was thinking... maybe we all should be clearly marked incase of contact questions from public people looking for reassurance of mod devlopment from people on the inside- i am not saying we should tell them everything about our stuff (lol- would really hate to see the bad side of Red...) but- could just gloss over the high points which are going thru our forums- maybe not the extremely high points to leave some suprise to it all... but maybe we could start a list of certain topics which may be declassified... even if they r apparently small things- small things being improved is better than nothing-

[Breli]

That's really great news, so

Hail El vAkonD!

It is really impressive that you could add the WQ features that quickly. I already played around with this version a little bit and will report anything useful or worth knowing back here. The stuff I told you in IRC were probably caused by my own inability

Additionally, I am thinking whether it would be a good idea to re-compile and re-release the existing maps with the upcoming patch ? Like a second edition map pack.

As far as I understand this, we can compile them again in order to improve their look with phong shading. If phong shading is simply added to the shader definition, it should be fairly easy to do that for all maps. At least for those for which we have the map-files.

Additionally, we can probably revise the stock maps if there are still some bugs. Recently, I played San Cuchillo on a server (Red was there, too) and somebody told me that one of the spawn points is screwed (you can't move away because is stuck in the ground).

Stuff like that is easy to fix, isn't it? I don't mean structural or major changes. Just minor things that have been found over the years. If we ask the community in the public forum some other map-bugs may probably be reported which can be fixed easily.

Bad or good idea? If it's good, I volunteer to provide some processing capacity

cheers

breli

[El vAkonD]

Hail El vAkonD!
It is really impressive that you could add the WQ features that quickly.

It wasnt too hard, 'cause I've got the q3map2 and the old q3map source too. Thanks to Mr. Neckerson for searching the q3map2 code for me. I'm sure it's not fully working right, but I dont have more time right now to fix it. And it isn't a big problem. I don't know what causes the dark splotches, but also the original q3map2 produce it, so it's maybe a bigger problem. Red, you should try to separate every light source, to find which cause it exactly. Anyway, has the campfire an own light, or you make it with another?

Additionally, I am thinking whether it would be a good idea to re-compile and re-release the existing maps with the upcoming patch Shocked? Like a second edition map pack.

Yep. I've suggested this to Neckerson, but he told me it's an enormous work, and we aren't a good many. I think the maps need more work, not just applying phong shading on each. We need more, bigger and better textures, I'm really fed up with the old ones. Every map has the same textures, they are just boring now..
So.. In my opinion it's a good idea, but sure a lot work.

[El vAkonD]

Huh, I forgot to ask you, Neckerson about your phong shaded terrain. Isn't your shadeangle a bit too high? It seems to me it rounds down the planeangles and smooths the edges too strong, perhaps it would look even nicer, if you decreased the angle a littl'bit.
from simland (I know you read it):
'It is always recommended to start with a low value of 45 and work your way up to a limit of 120. Really high q3map_shadeangle values do not produce good results and look too smooth causing brushwork profiles to be lost.'

[Breli]

Yep. I've suggested this to Neckerson, but he told me it's an enormous work, and we aren't a good many. I think the maps need more work, not just applying phong shading on each. We need more, bigger and better textures, I'm really fed up with the old ones. Every map has the same textures, they are just boring now..
So.. In my opinion it's a good idea, but sure a lot work.

Surely new textures would be great and we might even be able to "borrow" some from other mods or games. But I agree that retexturing all maps is way too much work for the few of us. As Red knows, I already got fooled on this by my own hubris ...

But do we really have to retexture the maps? As far as I understand phong shading, it is simply a definition in the shader specification. Thanks to you, Q3map2 does the rest . Can't we change a few shaders (for instance those that are used for rock cliffs) and recompile the maps? It would probably increase the visual appearance a little bit. It will not boost WQ to top-notch graphics, though. Of course, it is still questionable whether it is worth the work and fits in the plans or not ...

Personally, I don't care that much about graphics. I am only interested whether it is fun to play or not. But as you know, most people out there think differently ...

Anyway, such decisions have to be made by the guys that are in charge here I just thought it might possibly be a good idea.

cheers

breli

[El vAkonD]

But do we really have to retexture the maps? As far as I understand phong shading, it is simply a definition in the shader specification.

No, we dont have to. It was only an idea, like yours.

[L3th4l]

We can't do anything to the maps that we don't have the .map file for (which is almost all of them). You can decompile a map but it never works right and things get screwed. New textures and alike would have to be done in a port to a new engine with new maps..

[El vAkonD]

We can't do anything to the maps that we don't have the .map file for (which is almost all of them). You can decompile a map but it never works right and things get screwed. New textures and alike would have to be done in a port to a new engine with new maps..

But if you'll port this to another engine, why are we here? Why are we testing the patch? Why did Breli and the others make a map? There is no point to do anything until the porting is done.
However if you would like to release a new wq3 before the new engine, why can't we make new maps even with new textures, and everything else?

[L3th4l]

A port to another engine will be a ways off (6months or more) So we want to make this one better for now. As for new official maps and textures for the new version, we just don't have enough people onboard to make that happen. If we had say 3 or 4 dedicated mappers and a texture artist or 2, then I would say we could do that.

[ReD NeCKersoN]

but- everybody else has a "tester" title on their name... mine is just "end user"...

I added you to the testers some time ago but forgot to change your rank. I'll fix it now. As for declassifying information... most of it already is. The patch implementations were listed on the main site's news some time ago. My map is advertised in the editor section. The new q3map2 will be made available to the public as soon as we make sure nothing is wrong with it. What else is there?

About retexturing the original maps:
I only have 5 of the original beta 2.0 map files. br_durango, br_farm, br_mexico, du_highnoon and wq_canyon. From version 1.2 I have wq_fortsumter, wq_town and wq_silvercity. wq_train was decompiled by me and isn't the original file. (I'm surprized it turned out as good as it did.)
So, we only have a very few files to work with and I don't think it's worth it unless we retexture them as well. But like Lethal said we don't have the manpower for it.

However if you would like to release a new wq3 before the new engine, why can't we make new maps even with new textures, and everything else?

Um, wq_CoyoteBluff fits that description does it not? Who will join me in this effort?

Huh, I forgot to ask you, Neckerson about your phong shaded terrain. Isn't your shadeangle a bit too high? It seems to me it rounds down the planeangles and smooths the edges too strong, perhaps it would look even nicer, if you decreased the angle a littl'bit.

I used the default shadeangle of 60 that was in the sample shader file. Yes, I plan to test the results with a decreased value but simply haven't had time yet. I also plan to change the textures to better ones.

I don't know what causes the dark splotches, but also the original q3map2 produce it, so it's maybe a bigger problem. Red, you should try to separate every light source, to find which cause it exactly. Anyway, has the campfire an own light, or you make it with another?

I have isolated it and it is caused by the fire texture which has a shader that causes it to make it's own light. I suspect the shader may be causing the weird effect. If not, it is a problem with q3map2 and nothing to do with your modifications. Again, I have had no time to experiment with other light producing textures. I hope to find time this weekend for many tests.

Good feedback and discussion here! Keep it coming and don't hesitate to do the same in other threads.

[Shadoku]

This is so awesome... time to get out of this damn mapping slump and get back to work =D

[ReD NeCKersoN]

I had a little time to try a few things today.



I adjusted the shadeangle for the cliffs (35) and they look much bettter now. As you can see from the screenshot, choosing a different fire texture gets rid of the weird shadows.

[ReD NeCKersoN]

Just thought I'd mention that we shouldn't use -extrawide in the compiles anymore. In fact, here is a list of switches that I reccomend.
BSP
-meta //This is needed for several reasons and should always be used.

VIS
-saveprt //Saves the .prt file so you can load it in the prt viewer in Radiant. This will show you the portals which will help determine where hint brushes are needed.

LIGHT
-filter //filter & super2 replace -extrawide and compile much faster
-super 2
-patchshadows //Enables the casting of shadows by cactus & other patches.

Obviously, there are many more switches we can experiment with now. For instance, -bounce X will rediffuse the light on a surface X number of times, giving your shadows an even better look. But the compile time increases drastically. If anyone finds interesting switches please let us know.