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[hika]

I just updated the coyotebluff map in my test server, this morning.
Happy testing (and playing)

[hika]

erm ... I mean this morning in GMT+2 (e.g Summer timezone in France)
Say this night for the american friends

[sig11]

are the newest releases of coyote bluff and the br currently running on the test serv?

Of course not ... Hopefully till tonight, though. In the meant time, as hika said, use his server.

[sig11]

OK, here is my take on BR mode: I think the money bag is a bit far away from the spwanpoints of the Lawmen (at least in comparison to the other BR maps). What about putting it close to the "Do not enter" sign, e.g. behind that giant keg inside a safe there ? Or even right next to the top position of that climbing rope ?

BTW, since last night it's updated on my test server, too.

[ReD NeCKersoN]

It's a shame I didn't design a br map and then make the wq version from it, instead of the other way around. It's hard for me to imagine a perfect scenario here but this is what we have to work with. Sig11 suggests moving the money. I was thinking of moving the defender's spawnpoint. Chico commented on the def's spawnpoint before I ever mentioned it to him. Don Antonio, Chico and I played maybe 10 rounds of 1 vs 2 and it was interesting to see the creativity of strategies unfold. Don told me the spawn placements were logical to him given the location of the money. I was also questioned about whether or not I would include a 2nd robbery point. The way things are now, the defenders are immediately placed within line of sight of the escape point but are just as far from the gold as the bandits. We could also think about moving the escape point which could give an entirely different gameplay. I've thought about this a lot and I'm not sure which way to go. Please keep this in mind. I can add money, move money, escape points and spawnpoints with ease. Creating new areas takes time. I'm going to start a new thread that I hope will help us to figure out how to optomize the br gameplay before this level is released.

[sig11]

Ok, in that case ... forget about my input ... I'm not playing a lot of BR anyways. And if in the long run the strategies change with that setup, then this sounds interesting and like a good thing.

[Pardner]

this did bother me as well. I found it too easy to escape with the money; of course Ive only been play with bots. but even with bots, the robery's path to get the money was shorter than the defenders.

what if you put the money in the cabin? the defenders would have to come all the way up the tunnels to get the money, and then around the top to escape. This might be too hard, but its an idea.

maybe if/when you do a group test (other thread), you will find a good place.

[ReD NeCKersoN]

Ok, in that case ... forget about my input

No way! I'm not dismissing your idea, I'm just undecided about what to do. Everyone's input is greatly appreciated.

[DeUgli]

Pardner wrote:

I found it too easy to escape with the money; of course Ive only been play with bots.

In testing against other players today, I didn't see it as being too easy to escape. In fact, it seemed fairly hard. I wonder if the escape tunnel entrance is more narrow than the usual br escape. Most of the maps just require you to run to a general location. Could there be another tunnel entrance near the overturned wagon?

[hika]

Taking the money can be easy, but to escape with, that's a challenge, as we cannot stop players to camp (and it is normal).
However, I find it very fun to have one(s) who tried to rob and others who tried to kill some money keepers, as the map is wide enough.
At the same time, it make them busy trying to kill the robbers.
This is some kind of strategy and scenario that fits well with coyotebluff.

[ReD NeCKersoN]

Could there be another tunnel entrance near the overturned wagon?

Hmmm, I think making more tunnels would be very time consuming. Dunno if that's a feasible solution. I'll have to do some more thinking about all of this.

Does anyone think br mode is too dark in the outside areas? I've had one person tell me it's so dark as to be unplayable but the caves are just fine for him.

[hika]

I'll have to do some more thinking about all of this.

Hey Red, don't forget the stuck points in both BR and DM

Does anyone think br mode is too dark in the outside areas? I've had one person tell me it's so dark as to be unplayable but the caves are just fine for him.

I did not notice any particular problem about darkness, in the cave or outside.
Maybe, because my brightness setup is at maximum value ?
I don't know either if I should test with default config or mine.

[DeUgli]

Does anyone think br mode is too dark in the outside areas? I've had one person tell me it's so dark as to be unplayable but the caves are just fine for him.

Night maps are problematic, but I think once people learn the map, they will enjoy the dark areas. That's my experience, any way.

[ReD NeCKersoN]

I think what I will do is is make a copy of the br map and name it br_coyotebluff2 or something. I'll try a little brighter setting and and play with the spawnpoints, money, and escape point. This way it would be a small download and won't overwrite the original. Then we can do some comparing.

[Breli]

Ok, here some thoughts from my side:

- BR in CoyoteBluff: I don't think that escaping is too easy. Quite the opposite actually. The exit is very easy to defend. A single player with a shotgun can hold it forever. And you can't use dyna to get him out, since it is bent and deep enough. Likewise, the small brigde can be easily defended from someone on the ledge. DeUgli told me that lesson a couple of times. He can see the robbers approaching earlier as they can see him. Nevertheless, BR was fun. Personally, I like the idea that the robbers can get the money easily but have a hard time to get away with it. One thing you might try Red is placing the escape area at the overturned blue coach and probably make some way to get up to the ledge from the small bridge (a rope or something). Another thought: What about two escape areas? Does that work? Have we ever tried that?

- "Skating" Bots: Just a remark and nothing we can fix IMHO. I think you wrapped the tracks with botclip, correct? Then you have the same problem as I have in Backwater: botclip has "weird" or wrong surface properties. If bots move on it, they seem to "skate" and are very fast. You can see that effect in the tunnels sometimes (or in Backwater's yard for that matter). I don't know whether we can try to create a new botclip shader that fixes this or whether torhu can fix that in the code. Torhu, L3th4l! Any thoughts on this? It would be great if we would have a solution for that since our "new" mapping style necessarily creates much much more areas for bots to maneuver on which brings us directly in "botstutter" hell.

- Botstutter: Just in case you're still on it. I wouldn't worry about that anymore. It shouldn't be a problem with up to 6 bots I guess and thats fair enough.

- Management Summary: The most beautiful level by far, Red! Dang! Probably it even spurs me on to fire up that Radiant thingy once again

Cheers

Breli