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[iap]

Lets start with that I'm not a good shooter. In particualr with pistols. Most of the time I buy another pistol and when I see someone I go crazy like yosamity sam...

(Of course I'm exaggerating...)

Here is my suggestion: Why not making an aiming mode to the pistols. Holding a button will aid the aiming of a pistol by slightly magnifying the scene (like from FOV of 90 to FOV of 82), decreasing the spread and maybe changing the cursor.
But the down side is that the player could not move, or if he is starting to run or walk, then aiming mode is aborted.

After all even in real life (or at least in brouce willice films) you need to stand, concentrate and aim to get the shot right.

If you worry about this encouraging what you call "camping" then... If I understand correctly, camping is staying in a hiding place and from there shoot everyone without getting out. Personally I think that who plays like this is a coward. However, its not bad to hide in houses, mines, in distant places behind or under boxes, just not all the time. The maps are filled with these places, they were meant to be "hiding places". If someone is feeling insecure to get out to the playing field - then thats his problem. Its just like in the real life...

[dowoshek]

Looks like you are talking about Sharps Rifle + scope

And speaking seriously... i think that would be not so helpful in eye-to-eye battles, because if you can't move in such situation, then you will be dead very quickly too, even playing against an average skilled player. On the other hand, as you mentioned it, it'd be another support for campers.

[iap]

The scope magnify the view very much. I meant a slight magnification, to give the feeling of "concentrating".
More then once I came to a situation where I sew a man standing in a distant roof and tried to shoot.
Aiming mode can be only with one pistol, and only when standing or crunching (if walking together with crunching, then it's ok). It would be just another tool, and enhance the realism.

[Tequila]

In my point of view, that's a good idea and we are discussing a little about that with SG team.

What I would have is something like an "accuracy" gauge. Let stand up or crouched for a little time, like 2 to 5 seconds (like concentrating) and your accuracy will grow a little and we may really add such little zooming effect just to give you the feeling you'll have more accurate shoot.

Of course, you won't be able to have such advantage in eye-to-eye battles or you'll be dead quickly...

And yes this will help campers, but not so much... one shot may reset your accuracy... Maybe they'll be pushed to shoot less often. But for campers, a better weapon balance can help much.

[iap]

Yay.

By the way, I still don't understand what is the problem with campers? That they never get out of their hiding places?

[Tequila]

Camping is a strategy.
And honestly I think camping was always THE strategy in old western countries... But in our modern days, people don't have always the time to use such strategy by themselves and they just want to play, play and play again at 120%... Personally, I think MODs like UT4 is better for such players
Campers are not a problem for SG in my point of view... they are a feature

[moRtem]

By the way, I still don't understand what is the problem with campers? That they never get out of their hiding places?

there are a couple of problems with campers:
1) a camper with aim is unbeatable due to head-hitboxes being totally off (as soon as someone camps behind a box where you can only see his head, he is unkillable since you will never guess where his head-hitbox is located -- while the camping opponent is able to aim as usual)

2) in public servers, usual match-rounds last around 1-1,5 mins. As soon as you got a hardcore-camper in team, you will have to wait (almost) until round-timeout (3 mins), because campers usually die at last

3) to not fall asleep while watching camper vs camper situations you need to drink at least 3 cups of coffee every round


to summarize: a camper playing on a crowded BR-server is wasting the time of a dozen players


/quit

[Pardner]

3) to not fall asleep while watching camper vs camper situations you need to drink at least 3 cups of coffee every round.

Maybe try not dieing . No, no, no seriously I understand your point completely. But the camper has just as much right to play the game the way he wants as you do. You like to zerk in and kill anything that moves, he like to be stealthy and wait for his prey. It is fustrating watching a two campers wait our a two minute BR round. When this happens, I tend to start hunting the campers instead of going for the main crowd.

[Sucalakafufu]

1) a camper with aim is unbeatable due to head-hitboxes being totally off (as soon as someone camps behind a box where you can only see his head, he is unkillable since you will never guess where his head-hitbox is located -- while the camping opponent is able to aim as usual)

well not really. i kill those campers alot. they are almost my favorite type of campers since the head is the only thing exposed i can aim just above straight on and just below and fire away. then i get an almost easy headshot

moRtem wrote:
3) to not fall asleep while watching camper vs camper situations you need to drink at least 3 cups of coffee every round.


Maybe try not dieing Very Happy . No, no, no seriously I understand your point completely. But the camper has just as much right to play the game the way he wants as you do. You like to zerk in and kill anything that moves, he like to be stealthy and wait for his prey. It is fustrating watching a two campers wait our a two minute BR round. When this happens, I tend to start hunting the campers instead of going for the main crowd.

i understand your point too moRtem. but i also agree with Pardner. i would do what he does if theres campers. KILL THEM!!!! lol its really fun and satisfying to catch a camper unsuspecting

also we need to remember how this game was developed.
i agree with Tequila. people who want fast paced kill kill kill and respawn should play UT4 or something

UT4 is better for such players Smile

Campers are not a problem for SG in my point of view... they are a feature Very Happy

if Tequila says this, then i dont think anyone should be complaining about campers except in a "i cant get that many kills, silly camper" kind of way. IMHO if the SG Team like Tequila and Pardner agree that camping is a part of SG (which i always thought it was) then we shouldnt have to have threads everywhere or people online everywhere saying "camper! i hate campers!" LOL

[Pardner]

... Tequila and Pardner agree that camping is a part of SG ...

I think camping is a part of every shooter type game. The thing is you dont want to tip the balance in favor of one type of player or the other.

[Sucalakafufu]

... Tequila and Pardner agree that camping is a part of SG ...

I think camping is a part of every shooter type game. The thing is you dont want to tip the balance in favor of one type of player or the other.

true true. i guess a better way to say what i said is that camping really cant be seen as a bad thing. especially in this game.

[Lucky Bro]

iap,
Totally agree with your first post in the thread.
Precision mode is cool thing.
And there is a lot of topics about camping on the forum. But you got the idea right - in balanced game camping is not a trouble. So, as you'll discover soon - the only real big trouble here is the game's balance. It gives advantages to camper style (not only that, but since we are talking about it again..).
I know players who left the game because of its current balance (I did the same).

But anyway, try to have fun with current one. You are playing for not very long time, so you still have things to know. The game's design is very nice regardless to its age. Especially players(wq_male1)/guns models. Durango is really balanced (not dm6 from Q3, but pretty close ) and good designed map in this game.

Have fun!

[moRtem]

the only real big trouble here is the game's balance. It gives advantages to camper style (not only that, but since we are talking about it again..).

that's the important point, i guess.


And btw: We need to defer between different camping "styles":
1) those who sneak around for a couple of seconds when the situation requires to do so (a lot of enemies around... doing a back-kill etc.)

2) those who sit for a few seconds to reload or to avoid enemy's fire

3) those who sit at one place for the whole round no matter what happens


and while i think 1) and 2) should be a part of the game (with limits of course), i think that 3) is a total funspoiler and actions should be taken in terms of game-flow and -balance

there are serverside models to limit camping at some point -- and i seriously think such techniques should be used ---- players who move rational (and camp rational) should not be affected by this functions .. while hardcore-campers (my point #3 basically) should feel the consequences


/quit

[dowoshek]

:D
Camping is a strategy.
And honestly I think camping was always THE strategy in old western countries... But in our modern days, people don't have always the time to use such strategy by themselves and they just want to play, play and play again at 120%... Personally, I think MODs like UT4 is better for such players
Campers are not a problem for SG in my point of view... they are a feature

Yes it was a kind of strategy, but NOT FOR ROBBERS! Comon, do you imagine a guy sitting in one place behind some box and... what... waiting for what... for scared sheriff bringing the bags to him or what?

Bad, heavy camping should be punished (only in BR mode). But UT4 is not a soulution There's just a need to change some things. And the main one, imho, is adding another mode of BR with permanent respawns (a typical CTF) - a complete "fun-mode" where camping would be accepted part of game, without players waiting 2 minutes and watching a guy reading newspaper behind a box.

[Black Jack Ketchum]

As i wrote in another thread, My opinion are: it isent ok for robbers to camp, maybe it could be corrected like this: If a round goes to Timeoute the defending team gets the point, instead of not giving any points at all.