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A few issues with ioQ3 (Linux)

Postby Caffeine » Mon May 15, 2006 12:24 am

I'm using the latest ioQ3 svn and a recent OpenAL svn [Edit 8/18: now using Debian's libopenal0a 0.0.8-1] with it. BaseQ3/TA and most Q3 mods that I've played work just fine. Unfortunately, WQ3 isn't one of them.

The first, most annoying problem that I'm experiencing is that WQ3 will cause my Q3 client to exit at seemingly random times while I'm playing WQ3 online. This is not a crash, apparently: CL_Shutdown gets called and there are no crash signals. [Edit 8/18: This issue seems to be resolved when s_useOpenAL is set to 0. The errors mentioned below are also gone.]

Secondly, I have observed quite a few sound-related errors with ioQ3.

  • The wind chime in wq_canyon will sometimes revert to the default sound.
  • A few sound-related errors will appear in the console:
    ^1ERROR: while buffering data for music stream - Invalid value
    (After typing /quit) ^1ERROR: Can't delete sound buffer for sound/feedback/hit.wav
  • Gameplay-wise, sound in ioQ3 seems a little too ... well, cheatish. I'm not sure whether or not I should be hearing as much as I do, especially sounds through e.g. thick walls or through canyons in wq_canyon. I have not touched the code myself.

Lastly, there is one minor annoyance with WQ3 that I've observed: When using the buy menu, additional clicks after the first one on the same item don't always "take." For instance, I like to buy dual Schofields, so I click it twice, and this doesn't always work; sometimes I have to move the mouse around a bit between the first and second click.
Last edited by Caffeine on Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ReD NeCKersoN » Mon May 15, 2006 5:51 am

I'm using the latest ioQ3 svn and a recent OpenAL svn with it.

I'm afraid you're treading on new territory there. Since nobody else here is playing the game with your approach (that I know of) you may not get many answers here.
I want to keep those 3rd-party maps in my baseq3 folder. Is there any way to determine which map(s), if any, could be causing the problem?

Take them all out & add them in one at a time until the problem reoccurs? If you have a lot of them, do it in batches.
I'm not sure whether or not I should be hearing as much as I do, especially sounds through e.g. thick walls or through canyons in wq_canyon.

I can say that sounds do seem to bleed through the maps in stock WQ3 quite a bit. Hard to say if it's the same as what you hear.
When using the buy menu, additional clicks after the first one on the same item don't always "take."

It's always been that way. I think the mod creator may have done that on purpose to avoid accidental double clicks. As you've noticed, moving the mouse away and then back works. This may or may not get changed in future releases.
I have not touched the code myself.

Are you able to if you wanted?
I really like this mod; the standalone can't come soon enough for me.

There are 5 of us currently and it seems there is always one or two (sometimes 3) of us very busy with real life priorities at any given time. Our progress usually appears in spurts followed by times of very little. I think we could use more dev team members. Posting news & asking for help has yielded a few responses, but not much else. :|
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Postby Caffeine » Mon May 15, 2006 10:22 pm

ReD NeCKersoN wrote:I'm afraid you're treading on new territory there. Since nobody else here is playing the game with your approach (that I know of) you may not get many answers here.

Well, it definitely seems to be a problem with WQ3, since every other mod that I've tried works fine.

Take them all out & add them in one at a time until the problem reoccurs? If you have a lot of them, do it in batches.

Ugh... that could take a while. I have 96 3rd-party map PK3s. :(

It's always been that way. I think the mod creator may have done that on purpose to avoid accidental double clicks. As you've noticed, moving the mouse away and then back works. This may or may not get changed in future releases.

IMO, it should be changed; it's annoying and wastes precious seconds as it is now.

Are you able to if you wanted?

I haven't touched any ioQ3 or OpenAL code, and can't modify WQ3's. If you're offering to let me take a look at WQ3's, though, then I won't turn you down. :) However, I'm still learning C, so I don't think I'd be comfortable doing anything major; bugfixes, code cleanup (e.g. eliminating compiler warnings, if any), and maybe a few other things.

There are 5 of us currently and it seems there is always one or two (sometimes 3) of us very busy with real life priorities at any given time. Our progress usually appears in spurts followed by times of very little. I think we could use more dev team members. Posting news & asking for help has yielded a few responses, but not much else. :|

Well, I'm willing to help with a bit of coding in order to familiarize myself with the Q3 engine. Eventually I plan to do something completely crazy with it, so working with WQ3 wouldn't be a bad start.
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Postby Pardner » Tue May 16, 2006 3:44 am

IMO, it should be changed; it's annoying and wastes precious seconds as it is now.


if your worried about time you should use the keyboard to buy your stuff. examples:
Peacemaker:b13
sharps:b23
bolier plate:b51
scope:b52

if you know what you need, using the keboard to buy is very fast. me, i mainly use the peacemaker, so b13 is almost a reflex.

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Postby ReD NeCKersoN » Tue May 16, 2006 4:09 am

Well, I'm willing to help with a bit of coding in order to familiarize myself with the Q3 engine.

Couldn't you do that with the q3 source? Anyway, we appreciate the offer but we'd rather have someone actually join the team and commit. Not trying to quell your enthusiasm or anything, but we've had some folks around here that just want to grab the wq3 source for other reasons. Not saying that you're one of them so please don't take offense. :wink:

I don't think the buy menu is really meant for you to buy items in the middle of a firefight where seconds count. I usually try to duck into a dark corner somewhere to make my purchases.
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Postby sig11 » Tue May 16, 2006 9:44 pm

Returning to your crash problem: Usually, a pureness problem is indicated very promenently: You'll get a big message saying either "you can't connect" or "accessing impure pak" (the first is paraphrased, the second is close to the original error - I'm too lazy to look them up right now ;-) ...) - oh, and pureness is only an issue playing online !

Is ioq the only engine you have ? I.e. do you get the same problem with the retail version ?

Just to be clear, wq3 is in it's on directory ? you "only" have lots of maps and maybe models/bots etc. inside baseq3 ? I'm really thinking out loud here: these 96 pk3's can only overwrite textures/shaders etc. that WQ3 takes from baseq3, not the ones that WQ3 defines by itself. And there are only a few textures/shaders etc. that WQ3 takes from baseq3 (but enough to give us troible/work/headaches/... ;-) ... but that's a different story).

Are you sure it does not happen when you have a clean baseq3 ? Can you try to play wq_train with only pakX.pk'3 ? There is a certain bug I have in mind which _may_ cause the ioq3 engine to quit, and it happens very frequently on wq_train. It's bots getting invisible :? ... and we don't really know what it is ... I currently suspect OpenGL issues and since ioq3 is going through SDL in this case, that could behave quite differently.

About sound: the second does not happen with versions I use. The first: I don't think either and the last .... well, as Red said, not sure ;-) ...
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Postby Caffeine » Sat May 20, 2006 10:37 pm

sig11 wrote:Returning to your crash problem: Usually, a pureness problem is indicated very promenently: You'll get a big message saying either "you can't connect" or "accessing impure pak" (the first is paraphrased, the second is close to the original error - I'm too lazy to look them up right now ;-) ...) - oh, and pureness is only an issue playing online !

Well, this random exiting issue seems to only happen online, but I haven't tried WQ3 locally for any significant length of time.

Is ioq the only engine you have ? I.e. do you get the same problem with the retail version ?

No, I have idQ3 as well, but I prefer to use ioQ3 by far (anisotropic filtering without forcing it in the driver, flares, alt-enter without vid_restart [Linux only; SDL], etc).

I may just use idQ3 for WQ3 only, but that'd be a hassle... I guess I could change my script to run idQ3 when fs_game is set to westernq3, and ioQ3 otherwise. That's far from ideal, though.

Just to be clear, wq3 is in it's on directory ? you "only" have lots of maps and maybe models/bots etc. inside baseq3 ?

Indeed.

Are you sure it does not happen when you have a clean baseq3 ?

Well, it did just happen on RAWHIDE with a clean baseq3 (only pak?.pk3). :( I remember it also happening once before with all of the 3rd-party maps moved, but it didn't happen again that day, so I thought the problem was resolved with the maps moved.

Can you try to play wq_train with only pakX.pk'3 ? There is a certain bug I have in mind which _may_ cause the ioq3 engine to quit, and it happens very frequently on wq_train. It's bots getting invisible :? ... and we don't really know what it is ... I currently suspect OpenGL issues and since ioq3 is going through SDL in this case, that could behave quite differently.

Hmm, does the invisible bots issue occur on every map?

About sound: the second does not happen with versions I use. The first: I don't think either and the last .... well, as Red said, not sure ;-) ...

Aye, from what I remember, the sound is fine in idQ3 with no console errors. I'm not sure whether or not the sound issues in ioQ3 are related to that random exit issue. If not, then I'm not too concerned about them at this point.
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Postby sig11 » Mon May 22, 2006 10:53 pm

Thanks for all the info.

Caffeine wrote:Well, it did just happen on RAWHIDE with a clean baseq3 (only pak?.pk3). :( I remember it also happening once before with all of the 3rd-party maps moved, but it didn't happen again that day, so I thought the problem was resolved with the maps moved.

sig11 wrote:Can you try to play wq_train with only pakX.pk'3 ? There is a certain bug I have in mind which _may_ cause the ioq3 engine to quit, and it happens very frequently on wq_train. It's bots getting invisible :? ... and we don't really know what it is ... I currently suspect OpenGL issues and since ioq3 is going through SDL in this case, that could behave quite differently.

Hmm, does the invisible bots issue occur on every map?


It probably happens on every map, yes. Everybody of us has seen it on some map at some time, so in the end it's probably on every map. It's just that it seems to happen on wq_train quite often. And now that you experienced your crash on Rawhide does at least not exclude this reason.
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Postby sig11 » Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:11 pm

Hah, I found this thread again :D ....

Since the ioq3 mailing list does not seem to have a public archive, I can't link there. And since, therefore, the mails are probably designed to stay non-public, I don't want to verbatim cite mails here.

Anyways, there was just a message refering to http://svn.icculus.org/quake3?view=rev&rev=874 with the specific request to check weather westernq3 still crashes. Apparently ioq3 would crash if the music changes a lot - and apparently WQ3 changes music "a lot". So, get a version from after Aug 27 and try again.
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Postby Caffeine » Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:56 pm

sig11 wrote:Since the ioq3 mailing list does not seem to have a public archive, I can't link there. And since, therefore, the mails are probably designed to stay non-public, I don't want to verbatim cite mails here.

I think there is an archive, but I'm subscribed too.

Anyways, there was just a message refering to http://svn.icculus.org/quake3?view=rev&rev=874 with the specific request to check weather westernq3 still crashes. Apparently ioq3 would crash if the music changes a lot - and apparently WQ3 changes music "a lot". So, get a version from after Aug 27 and try again.

Probably because I finally got around to reporting the bug here (I was thinking about including a link to this thread, but didn't). I'll test soonish.

Edit: Tested. No change.
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Postby sig11 » Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:35 am

Seems, the ball is back in our court again ... :? ... ioquake3 claims that this is a bug in the WQ3 code ... they may even be right ;-) ... see http://www.westernquake3.net/bug_databa ... ails&id=46 or https://bugzilla.icculus.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2836
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