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Alamo

Postby Joe Kari » Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:37 pm

Hi !
Because my old alamo thread has been lost in the crash of the database, there are many question I must ask again... Sorry...

About sounds :
How to make a sound trigger when someone pass through an area (like the bell in HeH) ?
How to make a player say "AAAAAAaaaah" when he fall down a cliff (like in CoyoteBluff) ?

Some new question :
About doors, I have tried to make saloon doors "team-opening", with the key/val : team/1, but I have some trouble... In one way it works well (both door open in the right direction), but for the other way, one rotating door open in the wrong direction... Is it a SG bug ? Or maybe I have missed something...
Anyway, I have another option : make doors not open when activated but when someone touch them, this is the way saloon doors act in all other SG map. But I don't know how do to it (I have done some try without success).

Perhaps my lazzy brother (Coup' George ;)) would make some custom texture, so my last question is : how to make a new shader that work correctly (bullet can pass through wood, but not stone, play the correct sound when hit, etc... ).
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Postby Pardner » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:50 am

Joe Kari wrote:How to make a sound trigger when someone pass through an area (like the bell in HeH) ?
How to make a player say "AAAAAAaaaah" when he fall down a cliff (like in CoyoteBluff)

to make a trigger sound: create a brush and texture it with common/trigger. Then make it a "trigger_multiple". now make it point to a "target_speaker". And finally, set the "noise" key to the sound you want to play. To make the falling death sound: just make a triggered sound, but set the "noise" key to "*falling1.wav". the "*" will make it so that it automatically chooses the male/female.

Joe Kari wrote:About doors, I have tried to make saloon doors "team-opening", with the key/val : team/1, but I have some trouble... In one way it works well (both door open in the right direction), but for the other way, one rotating door open in the wrong direction... Is it a SG bug ?

To make a triggered door, create a "trigger_multiple" and make it point at the "func_door". also, you need to set the "trigger_door" spawnflag on the "func_door".

To make a saloon door, first create two independent swing trigger doors. You will need two origins to do this. make one "triger_multiple" point to one door, and then add the "team" key with a value of something like "saloon_door"
EDIT: on your saloon door, you will want to have a wait key on the "trigger_multiple" so it doesnt slam in your face. (NNC for instance)

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Re: Alamo

Postby ReD NeCKersoN » Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:22 am

EDIT: Looks like Pardner posted as I was writing. How's that for service? :D

Joe Kari wrote:How to make a sound trigger when someone pass through an area (like the bell in HeH)?

Image Image
Notice I have the wait key set for 2 seconds longer than the wav file plays. Then set the random value to 1. This keeps the sound from playing again, untill it has finished, if a player activates the trigger too soon.
Joe Kari wrote:How to make a player say "AAAAAAaaaah" when he fall down a cliff (like in CoyoteBluff)?

Image Image
Joe Kari wrote:...make doors not open when activated but when someone touch them, this is the way saloon doors act in all other SG map. But I don't know how do to it (I have done some try without success).

Image Image
Joe Kari wrote:how to make a new shader that work correctly (bullet can pass through wood, but not stone, play the correct sound when hit, etc... ).

Name the texture for what it should act like. Sand_whatever, dirt_whatever, metal_whatever, etc.
That will tell the engine to give your texture the correct sounds & particle effects. Untill you understand how shaders work, just find a shader for a similar texture that you want your new one to behave like. Copy it & change the paths. When you have time, you should read the shader manual when you want to understand what all of the commands do.
http://www.heppler.com/shader/
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Postby Joe Kari » Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:24 am

Hi !

I have added a custom texture in my map, as you can see. The shader is the same that is used for ladders and other tex with transparency, but I have a little trouble :
Image
Image

The lens flare is displayed after my texture...
How to fix this ?


Here is the shader (same shader than wood_fence*) :

textures/joekari/cloth_alamo1
{
surfaceparm trans
surfaceparm alphashadow
surfaceparm nonsolid
cull none
nopicmip

{
map textures/joekari/cloth_alamo1.tga
blendFunc GL_ONE GL_ZERO
alphaFunc GE128
depthWrite
rgbGen identity
}
{
map $lightmap
rgbGen identity
blendFunc GL_DST_COLOR GL_ZERO
depthFunc equal
}
}
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Postby L3th4l » Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:37 am

If you made the curtain using a patchmesh make it out of a very thin brush instead. Put your curtain texture on one side of the brush and put NODRAW on all the other sides of the brush.
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Postby Joe Kari » Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:15 am

Yes it is a brush with "nodraw" on the 5 others sides... ... ...
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Postby Joe Kari » Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:10 pm

Hi all !

Can you give me some tricks (or an URL) to optimize bot support ? I know the "bot do not enter" textures, but I don't know if there are others stuffs...
Bot are always running toward the center of the map (as usual), in the market place... How to balance this ?

About hint brushing, I have little trouble... Are Hint brush forcing a BSP split ?
I have seen over internet that they are "good candidate for BSP split", does it mean "not always" ?
In fact, the village of small house in my map is a place where VIS blocking must work well, but it does not... I have made three-dimensionnal hint brushing there, very close, and I'm sure that leaf node there can't see portal of leaf node of the market and of the big house (and church)...
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Postby ReD NeCKersoN » Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:26 pm

Bot Tutorial link on this page.
Put bot clips anywhere that the bots can't get to AND anywhere you don't want them to go. Keep the shapes simple. Example shot from br_hangemhigh:
Image
Once your map is clipped you need to compile with bspc.exe" -forcesidesvisible -optimize -bsp2aas
Devmap the level & set AI nodes that the bots will be attracted to. This keeps them moving in games where there are no money pickups. Br for example. (Make sure you do not have any spawnpoints inside of botclip brushes.) From the ai-nodes_Readme.txt found in the dev_tools folder:
Code: Select all
AI files are waypoint files used by the bots in westernq3.
The AI-Nodes are set ingame, with cheats enabled.
-----------------------------------------------------------

commands:

"node_set"         set a node
"node_reset"       delete all nodes
"node delete"      delete the nearest node
"node_print"       print the coordinates of all nodes
"node_savefile"    save the .ai file
"node_openfile"    load the ai.file of the current map

I bind keys to these functions to make things easier. Set them in areas that you want the bots to move to but keep them a little distance away from objects. Here's an example pic of what the nodes look like when you are placing them in the level.
Image
As for BSP splitting, well I don't fully understand it either. You can read about it HERE although it's fairly technical. One of the main points to remember is that hint brushes must touch structural brushes to work. Toggle detail brushes OFF in Radiant when you are working with hints.
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Postby Joe Kari » Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:10 pm

You have used "botclip" instead of "bot do not enter"... Are those textures aliases ? Any difference ? So I guess "botclip" are non-solid unlike "playerclip"... (first time I saw this tex, I was thinking that botclip was like playerclip except that it was available only for bot).

Looks like it's rather difficult to add bot support for a map...

Thanks for info ;)

For hint brushes, yes they touch structural brushes.
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Postby ReD NeCKersoN » Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:45 pm

Joe Kari wrote:You have used "botclip" instead of "bot do not enter"... Are those textures aliases ? Any difference ?

Find the tutorial in the link I posted above. :wink: DO NOT ENTER just warns the bots to stay away. Bot clip works like player clip... but only affects bots.
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Postby Joe Kari » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:35 pm

Okey, I have added many AI-node, I don't know exactly what it does, but it seems to work.
I have add item_botroam too. I guess AI-node are like item_botroam except this last can have a "weight" value.

Well, a release candidat is possible for next week-end, if Coup' George works well 8) . I have very few things to modelize on my map, I'm just waiting for a ground texture and one or two wood textures.

VIS doesn't work the way I want, but I'm not sure this can be help.
Everything else is alright :)
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Postby Pardner » Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:04 am

ReD NeCKersoN wrote:Bot clip works like player clip... but only affects bots.

It also reduces the bsp size and the compile time. I found this one out when I did NNC. I never noticed a big difference when I did the AI nodes, but my BR bots are very very stupid.
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Postby Breli » Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:20 am

IIRC ai nodes do nothing else than giving bots alternative targets if there is nothing else they can go for (ammo, money, weapons, targets). With ai nodes, bots will just pick one and go there in case there is nothing else to do. As soon as it is reached, they'll pick the next one and so on. Usually, they bump in each other and screw routing altogether. If you delete the ai file, bots will work just fine in DM and TDM. But they'll just stand around in BR and RTP and contemplate about the meaning of their lives since the engine cannot pick a next target for bot route determination.

In BR all this is pointless anyway since they can't play it.

Clipping off complex geometry is essential for modern maps to function. Our new "style" greatly increases map complexity (i.e. surfaces) from a bot routing perspective. This quickly leads to bot stutter problems. However, bot optimization is really, really painful! Check out Cardigan's tutorial for details. I guess Red linked that in here somewhere? You shouldn't have bot stutter in Alamo for now since it is not that complex yet. However, it is good design practice to simplify bot routing by clipping.

cheers

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Postby Joe Kari » Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:32 pm

About glasses, I have reduce their size on the saloon, to keep decent framerate.
But there is something I still don't understand... The map wq_town have a lot of glasses, more than my map, and there are all larger than mine... I've just tried to blow them all, and the framerate slow down just a little... so what's wrong with my glasses ? :(

Good news for the VIS process, I have remade hint brushes from scratch, with many non-axial hintbrush, it works better.
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Postby L3th4l » Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:39 pm

Town has been optimized to death with hint and bot clips to help framrate.
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