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[Joe Kari]

Hi !

How duel map are made ? I haven't seen tutorial there...
I have some idea, so *maybe* I will do a try... That's could be refreshing, it's quite boring to work on the same map everytime

[ReD NeCKersoN]

How duel map are made ? I haven't seen tutorial there...

As far as I can tell, there's not much to it. Just name the map du_whatever and look at these screenshots. Notice which items are selected & read the entity info.


Hmmm. Seems there is a key "part" with a value "number" in the last 2 screeshots. Simply change the number for the entities in the other areas of the level. If you have 4 areas, you would use 1 through 4 for example. I see nothing unusual in the worldspawn entity window.

Lastly, I don't think the different areas have to be physically connected with brushwork. Here you can see all but one of the 8 "separate" areas all touching in this top view. Each is enclosed in it's own box. In some cases, with different skybox images.


Keep in mind we are having problems with lighting in the 2 duel maps for the SA. You should probably use a single set of skybox images for all areas in your level untill we figure it out. Hope this helps.

[Joe Kari]

Thanks Red

I have tested with two part, but duel never take place in the second part of the map...
And when duel are finished, pressing "fire 2" don't let me spectate there too.

There is an entity off-screen in your screenshot, what it is ? (with a green target link in radiant)

I have add an "info_player_start" with key part=1 (and part=2 in the second scene), but when duel is starting, the view come from nowhere.

EDIT : Okey, I have test all the info_*, and I have found it, it's a info_player_intermission, now it works, and duel swap between the two part of the map.

[Breli]

Go Joe Go! Looks like there is a new mapper in town!

[Joe Kari]

Go Joe Go! Looks like there is a new mapper in town!

Yeah and there isn't enough room for more than one mapper in this town !
One of us must die !
*reloading peacemaker*



Well, I have many idea for duel map, but I need lot of materials...
I could be very fun if the md3 horse model could be animated, so, if someone have some md3 skills
(I guess .md3 anim are availlable in radiant ?)
It could be fun to have a train attacked by some horse-powered chariot, using the same tricks as in wq_train for the surrounding rockwall.
Give the feeling that the chariot move sometime slower than the train, and sometime faster, sometime get closer (and cowboys can jump on the train)...
Love that idea...


I have made a nice grass texture effect, but it hurts framerate a lot, so I can't include this in a DM map... but in a DU map, it could be playable :



This is an animated shaders, creating a windy effect.
I have used some tricks for better performance, my shaders don't have lightmap stage and don't blend (I have just an "alphaFunc GE128" which is faster than blending).

I think I can make a nice scene for duel with this tex...

[NightcrawleR]

That's beautiful, and i like the train idea, and i think it would make more sense to make a BR. Although, i'm not sure a whole team would fit on a chariot, possibly 2 trains side by side, still having that one sometimes faster, sometimes slower, sometimes the same.

The grass texture is very impressive, I'd really like to see it in action.
I'm just a mapper, that's all, so i'd be really no help, but keep up the good work!

If you can fix the frame rate problem, that grass could be a real hit,and maybe sometime make it a bit longer so the cowboys can hide in it

[Joe Kari]

Thanks

The performance hit can't be help, I have already tune it to the best, my tex is 1.5 time faster than other alpha-textures...

make it a bit longer so the cowboys can hide in it

Yes, maybe with high wheat, it could be fun too...


For the two-train idea, it could be painfull to make this...
In the map "wq_train", the train isn't moving, it is the surrounding that move...
With 2 train that don't have the same speed all the time, one train MUST move for real, this mean this train is made with only one entity (a func train)... so this train can't have breakable item and doors. That's not a problem for a little chariot but for a whole train...
Respawn is painfull too, because respawn point can't follow an entity... for the chariot, I have imagine using some invisible wall (player clip) part of the chariot entity that guide a falling air-respawning player. I think it is possible this way... ...

[NightcrawleR]

That's still cool, I'd like to see how that would turn out. Are you actually planning on doing it, or brainstorming?
If so, I'm with you 100%.

[Joe Kari]

For the train duel, it's just brainstorming... I need some material and don't have skills to make them (animated md3 of horses).

My first goal is to finish Alamo... but it is good to have an other map to work, just for change

Another good place for duel could be a burning farm at night.
Another one a forest...

[Pardner]

Another good place for duel could be a burning farm at night.
Another one a forest...

You have some really good ideas Joe and in no way am I discouraging you, but there is a problem with your ideas and the Q3 engine. It would be almost impossible you make on section of the map night while the other sections are day. That is, of course, if Red/Breli/Lethal weren't able to find a fix for the old stock duel maps.

[Joe Kari]

I'm sure it is possible : disable q3map_sun, and use custom light...

I have found a website that explain how to have 2 sun in a map, unfortunately it is in french... I give you the link anyway :
http://sylvain.douce.club.fr/tipsq3map2.html#sun

I can try a *very* rough translation (with my poor english level) :

Create a spotlight (light linked to an info_null), add the key "_sun" with value of 1. The angle of the line "-->-->" give you the angle of the sun, and the key "_color" and "light" are fixing the color of the sun and its intensity. For disallow the q3map_sun directive in your shaders, add "_noshadersun" "1" to the worldspawn.

I hope it can be useful to the Smokin' Guns team, I haven't tested it...

[ReD NeCKersoN]

Thanks for the tip. I'll try it & resist making assumptions about how it's going to look.

[ChainLightnin']

Allez pour cela, Joe! Great ideas!

[ReD NeCKersoN]

For a very fast quality test of Joe's idea, I made a small box map & put in a couple of models for shadow testing. The first screenshot is in the editor with the "fake sun" light targeted to an info_null. (See highlighted objects.) Shot #2 is the result. Shot #3 is a normal scene compiled as we would normally do it without all of this trickery.


As you can see, the quality of the lighting is the best in shot #3. However, it's really not bad for shot #2 and could very well be an acceptable workaround when dealing with multiple skyboxes in a duel map. I should mention that I only used a plain white light & didn't try using any color values, which could theoretically yield better results. Before we get too excited though, I will have to try this in one of our current duel levels. It's also a bit tedious trying to position the light & info_null entities so that they are correctly aligned with the perceived sun of the skybox image. It took many compiles & subsequent adjustments to get the result you see in shot #2. Still, this might work. I'll post again when I have made more tests.

[ReD NeCKersoN]

After further testing, this method doesn't work for me when I introduce other duel areas. I added 3 other areas with a different skybox image for each. The areas all have their own "fake" suns at different angles. I get the same dreaded result that we've been fighting, which is overbrightness & wierd (or no) shadows. As a final test I eliminated all but one of the fake suns & reduced it's brightness to 1.


There's something odd happening when new areas are introduced. It's as if the compiler ignores the fake sun. (Or maybe I'm doing something wrong.) If other mappers have the time, maybe someone else can perform this test to see if they get anything different.

On the plus side, I think Lethal is doing some tests with compiler options that I'm not familiar with. I hope he has better luck than I.

About player_intermission entities. Here are some screenshots showing some information about how to use them in duel maps. Sorry that I didn't catch this earlier.