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Weapon changes for a better Smokin Guns

Postby mLy! » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:19 pm

Weapons: I have the feeling some weapons are priced wrong.

-Colt Peacemaker should have higher price, like 25 or something. 2 legshots and you die, this weapon is very powerfull.
-Remington 12 and Sawed off are really over used and thus should have a higher price imo
-Winchester shotgun has really low damage and is really hard to play whit, so it seems strange that this is the most expensive shotgun.
-Sniping is pretty hard in this game and harldy used by anybody. Sharps + scope is 52$ I don't underdstand why the scope has to be bought seperatly when it can only be used with one wepaon anyway? So imo lose the scope and give it free with the Sharps.

Not sure if this can be changed in severconfig, or needs a patch to make the changes.


Second, I would like to remind you off the Stopwatch idea I posted here viewtopic.php?t=1595
I think this could really increase the 'tempo' in this game and avoid camping.


Just my thoughts on this awesome game :)
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Postby moRtem » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:42 pm

hi mly!

- i think colt peacemaker's price is ok --- making it more expensive would make it even harder to be successful over a team that just won a round (they usually have better guns already, while you can start over with schofield and remington again) .. the peacemaker's price on one hand is higher than your 20$ start-capital (so it needs a bit of effort to get enough money to buy it), but on the other hand it ain't overpriced thus it is often possible to buy at least one of them even if you just lost a round and have a little chance against opponents who are armed with heavy guns already


- Remington 12 and Sawed Off are powerful close-distance-weapons, but without having additional Colts they are pretty useless imo ... i think the price of those is ok

- Winchester is very powerful on mid-range -- also a good compromiss on close-range ::: it doesn't really require you to take additional colts with you, since it got good reload-times and a lot of loaded bullets aswell ::: conclusion: in my opinion the price is oke

- i agree on the sniper :: also the attaching of the scopes confuses newer players :: and without scope the sniper is pretty useless (due to long reload times)

- stopwatch would indeed be a very nice addon -- also for competetive gaming


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Postby Bodie » Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:30 pm

It's much easier to get a kill with Sawed-Off or Remington Gauge than with a Winchester or Col Lightning.

There are only handful of people who buy rifles currently, almost everyone has a shotgun though. There's a reason for that and this reason is effectiveness.

I would make both shotguns much more costy and make both rifles cheaper so people start considering buying those instead. It would be nice to have Winchester at $20 so you can buy it with starting cash after losing a round. It wouldn't be much stronger (if stronger at all) than Remington+Schofield combo but would at least provide some alternative to it.

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Postby Hellrider » Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:13 pm

Hmm, I don't think the prices need to be changed.

The remington shotgun is a strong weapon but it takes you lots of time to reload it.
Maybe the sharps or the scope could be a bit cheaper.
By the way, the price of the winchester had been reduced long time ago. I remember a price of 35$ :wink:



I also found an old threat the price had been discussed, too.

----> viewtopic.php?t=897
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Postby ReD NeCKersoN » Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:31 pm

The Sharps is generally a "one shot = one kill" weapon. Make it cheaper & everyone with good aim will be carrying it whether a scope is included or not.
If shotguns seem to be overly used, it's probably because it's easier to hit something when players pings are wildly different. If you can't beat'em, join'em. :wink:
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Postby Bodie » Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:37 pm

Hi Hellrider,

When I click your link I get "The topic or post you requested does not exist".

About rifles, they just aren't worth the price we are demanded to pay for them... so most people (unless they are newbies or they just want to **** around a bit) don't buy them and don't use them. We played the Tournament yesterday. I watched almost all the games (missed only one I think) and do not recall a single rifle being used there. I do recall people running with all kinds of shotguns and pistols though. So apparently for our "pro" players rifle just isn't a viable option.

Now, from the point of game attractiveness, I believe that the more choices a player is given the better for him and for the game. It would be nice to see more people using rifles. Game just would be more interesting this way.

It would also teach people some accuracy, cause with Sawed-Off they only have to face the right direction and press the button... which isn't developing their skills at all.

Now the change I'm trying to propose is to make basic Winchester rifle worth $20 so you have a choice of buying either it or a Schofield when you lose a round. I think many people would go for that instead of Schofield and I rate effectiveness of Winchester comparable to effectiveness of Schofield+Remington combo. Winchester is slower but has better range, good damage and a dozen of bullets loaded so you can miss many shots before having to reload.

Now you don't have a realistic alternative to buying Schofield as your first gun. And having no alternatives is just BORING.

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Postby ReD NeCKersoN » Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:44 pm

rane wrote:I watched almost all the games (missed only one I think) and do not recall a single rifle being used there.

I used the lightning quite a bit on Backwater. I seem to recall Chico purchased one too, but I could be mistaken. Rifles have their uses & it generally depends on the map. I wouldn't want one on Durango for example.
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Postby Bodie » Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:53 pm

What if you lose a round on a huge sniping map like El Paso or Backwater.

Enemies now all have Boiler Plates, two Colts and a Sharps/Shotgun each. And you have $20 ... and are forced to buy a Schofield and then go with two hopeless pistols to face almost certain death.

Getting even a very weak rifle (and Winchester is extremely weak and ineffective weapon for its current price) instead of second pistol would be a viable alternative on a huge number of maps, just think about it: Santa Cruz, New Town, Alamo, Dawn Fort, Mexico, Coyote Bluff... There's plenty of space to use Winchesters there but people go for pistols instead because they can afford those.

It would make the game more interesting too if the robbing team had something else than their usual bad pistols.
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Postby Hellrider » Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:57 pm

rane wrote:Hi Hellrider,

When I click your link I get "The topic or post you requested does not exist".

mS // Donnie



It's a topic from the WQ3 archives, more precisely from the "WQ? Beta 2.2 Testing".
I wasn't sure if it's open to all people right now, because testing beta 2.2 is over for a long time, but it seems like it's only open for testers :|
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Postby Bodie » Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:11 pm

How do I become a tester then? :-)
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Postby mLy! » Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:01 pm

I just think remington 12 is so powerfull its over used at its current 24 price tag. Games are getting rather boring when 6 out of 7 enemies are running around or camping with sawed off or remington12.

Its is much more difficult to play and kill people with the inchester shotgun so I dont really understand why it is more expensive.

I understand the other opinions posted here, but imo it needs changing so that we can play more ballanced.
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Postby torhu » Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:09 pm

Here's my old weapon stats thread, for reference.

I agree that rifles are underpowered. It might be just that the distances in the game are generally too short for rifles to have an advantage, or that pistols are too good at long ranges. I'm talking about the Lightning and the Winchester 66, the Sharps is a different kind of weapon.

We could even the score by making the rifles more accurate, or even making the pistols less accurate. The idea would be that rifles have a noticeable advantage at a distance. If you're at one end of the main street in Canyon and firing at someone at the opposite end, one rifle could be better than using two schofields. But not better than two peacemakers. Something of that sort, maybe the distance should be longer.

How about that?
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Postby mLy! » Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:13 pm

torhu wrote:. But not better than two peacemakers. Something of that sort, maybe the distance should be longer.



Why not than 2 peacemakers, it doesn't seem right to me that you can be shot in the leg from 2 peacemakers on the other side of the map and die...

Even the Sharps at 52$ isn't that powerful at long range.
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Postby Hellrider » Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:41 pm

@torhu: Making weapons more or less accurate sounds better for me than changing their prices. But it could change the gameplay intensely.

---> At the moment I'm used to take either the remington or the sawedoff for close/mid distances and a pair of pistols for long distances. So you're well equipped for the most situations.
If you make the pistols less accurate for long distances, you will have to take a rifle then. But now you haven't got a weapon for close distances...I think you know what I want to say :wink:
I'm not sure if this'd be good or bad :|


@rane: ask ReD NeCKersoN, I think he could help you out.
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Postby torhu » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:07 pm

Hellrider wrote:If you make the pistols less accurate for long distances, you will have to take a rifle then. But now you haven't got a weapon for close distances...I think you know what I want to say :wink:
I'm not sure if this'd be good or bad :|


I'm not sure either, but it could be interesting to try it out. ;) The rifles and pistols are too similiar now, which makes rifles suck since you can't use more than one rifle at a time. Maybe it's enough to make the rifles more accurate, not stronger. If that's not enough, give the pistols a bit shorter effective range (meaning they do less damage from a far), but not lower their base damage or increase spread.

The goal is to make people actually use rifles. Pistols would still rule as all-purpose weapons. But you would have to choose between a shotgun for extra short-range power, or a rifle for better long-range effectiveness. That's obviously a gameplay change, so please comment. :)

PS. The reason we didn't do this earlier is that we assumed that the old team tried to make the weapons true to real life, and we didn't want to break that. But I suppose that's not such an important feature, not if it makes some weapons almost useless in the game.
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