With cordite in the air, splintered steel, shell casings and powder burns, there’s only one explanation...
Post feedback & meet new friends. General SG discussion.

Moderators: Pardner, TheDoctor

Time Nudging

Postby thug » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:09 am

So a couple of days ago someone accused me of time nudging.
To prove I wasn't, I entered the code (which i didn't even know, they had to tell me) into the terminal. My ping which is a normally 74ish dropped to 40.

Then without even an apology for the false accusations they told me to enter the same code but +50 to reset the nudge. The Problem is now my ping sits around the 120 range.
And if I reenter the code it goes back down into the 40's.

What should I do?

I pride myself on being an honest player and have no desire to cheat in anyway.

Thanks for your help.
User avatar
thug
Drifter
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:48 am



Postby thug » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:25 am

So I ended up just messing around with the value of the + and - number and got it back to normal.

But if anybody wants to turn this post into a discussion regarding time nudging in general that's okay with me.
User avatar
thug
Drifter
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:48 am



Postby Bodie » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:46 am

Who was that and why you succumb to pressure so easily? :-) You're a darn good player with a good clan, you earned your rep and you shouldn't allow yourself to be so easily threatened!

Try /cl_timenudge 0 to set it to default value which is 0 meaning no nudge either direction.

It's a variable you can read a lot about using google. It controls server's guessing of positions. Range is between -50 and 50 in vanilla SG. Baller Bude bot enforces it within -15 and 15 I believe and that's what I think is planned to be the standard for SG 1.1 when admins can actually control the range.

I think all major clans (at least in Europe) tell members to not use timenudge unless the member is at least a full continent away from the server where he's playing. And even then there's serious trade-offs to using it which most noobs aren't aware of. In general, you can't improve your ping unless you move a few servers closer to where the game is hosted (look at traceroute to Rawhide, no variable can change geography).

In the future, feel free to ping me on IRC and ask when someone tries to put some variables into your config.

If you give me person's name I will seriously warn them against forcing variables they don't understand on people in such a way. Such hostile behaviour is damaging for the community and should be ended before it becomes a popular thing to do. He deliberately gave you nudge +50 command to screw with your performance which definitely is against the rules of all servers I'm an admin of.
SG names: Bodie (aka mS // Donnie).
Admin on Jeuxlinux, RAWHIDE, #sg.wars and some other servers.
User avatar
Bodie
Jeuxlinux Admin
 
Posts: 633
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:59 pm



Postby /dev/random » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:31 pm

Timenudge does not affect the server, it's only your client! See the FAQ.
The default range in vanilla ioquake3 is -30 to 30.

To reset cvars, just use /reset cvarname.
User avatar
/dev/random
Smokin' Amigo!
 
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:58 pm



Postby Mart Duggan » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:40 pm

Someone has been bugging me to do something about timenudge, claiming some players are using it and it is cheating. From what I can find out, it is not cheating, so apparently it does not give any real advantage to someone using it. As I understand it, client side means it only affects the way the person using it views other players, not the way they view the user. For example, someone with a ping of 200 might effectively reduce their ping to 150. Other players' pings would remain the same and it would not affect their ability to hit the timenudger, but the nudger might get a slightly more responsive picture of their opponent. The cost to the player using timenudge is their view of the other players would be choppier, they would appear to skip across the screen more often, which would tend to negate the advantage of timeliness. Is this correct?
The Hoss - Rawhide part owner
User avatar
Mart Duggan
Gunslinger
 
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:38 pm



Postby moRtem » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:37 pm

Mart Duggan wrote:Is this correct?


The effect for other players is controversal. Like the FAQ says, the clients using timenudge (with negative values) should not appear choppy.

On the other hand, out of my (and many other experienced players) experience, timenudging players DO appear choppy. In Quake 3 many players accused this setting to be harder to hit.

My personal opinion is:
In any delagged game, timenudging ain't necessary, since everyone is playing with (virtual) 0 ping already. So the excuse "i use timenudge because i would have to aim in front of the enemy otherwise" doesn't count.

Since the topic "does timenudge make players appear choppy or not" is very controversal, and the benefits of timenudge ain't needed in delagged games, i would prefer to have timenudge locked to >= 0 (positive values allow to get a more stable connection sometimes).

But i also would like to add, that Smokin' Guns is a very slow game compared to vanilla Quake 3. So choppy players are more noticable in vq3 than in SG.

---

/quit
User avatar
moRtem
Gunslinger
 
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:56 pm



Postby Bodie » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:58 pm

When we have BBB or 1.1, we will limit the thing considerably. I'd rather people started learning to play without it. Transition will be easier for them this way.
SG names: Bodie (aka mS // Donnie).
Admin on Jeuxlinux, RAWHIDE, #sg.wars and some other servers.
User avatar
Bodie
Jeuxlinux Admin
 
Posts: 633
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:59 pm



Postby mLy! » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:06 pm

One more thing that hasn't clearly been said:

When using timenudge in SG your ping shows different in the scoreboard, this is only a bug and ping will stay exactly the same !

I use timenudge 0
My Latest fragmovies:
Winning BB cup
User avatar
mLy!
Gunslinger
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:46 pm



Postby Joe Kari » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:47 pm

timenudge > 0 => your client is interpolating
timenudge < 0 => your client is extrapolating

I don't see why a negative timenudge should be considered as a "cheat", and I have personnaly used it a lot while playing on Rawhide. It helps when your ping is higher than 140 (what I get on Rawhide).

BTW it is not the magical stuff that will raise your skill, since your client is extrapolating: you are only virtually more up to date with the current server snapshot, so what your screen display is not exactly what happened in the server.

If you dont get it, try setting a timenudge to -30 in a LAN game, and you will see how bad you will play (for a LAN), while a timenudge back to 0 will look smoother.

Timenudger are not harder to hit because of negative timenudge.
But usually, people use timenudge when they have a bad ping: this is what make them harder to hit.

In any delagged game, timenudging ain't necessary, since everyone is playing with (virtual) 0 ping already. So the excuse "i use timenudge because i would have to aim in front of the enemy otherwise" doesn't count.


Sorry, but delag doesn't help you to have a better ping, it only helps you to have more consistencies client-side. Even with a perfect delag code (which does not exist in any Q3 mods), you will still lose a race of fire with someone that have a better ping than you. It does not provide a 0ms ping even virtually. But a perfect delag will ensure you that a headshot client-side is a headshot server-side (if you are still alive when your headshot reach the server).
User avatar
Joe Kari
SG Team
 
Posts: 879
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:44 pm
Location: France



Postby Juaro Juarez » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:53 pm

First of all, using timenudge to "decrease" your ping is quite wrong. The only thing you do is fake a better ping, which makes you, imho, more unhittable to the others.
Timenudging was very popular like 2 years ago, everyone was running around with Pings around 5-12, I remember Dago having a Ping of 0 sometimes.
Anyways, timenudge is not helping anything, don't use it, set it to 0 and everything will be allright :)
-nox-Juaro-

Admin on Jeuxlinux.
User avatar
Juaro Juarez
Jeuxlinux Admin
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:16 pm



Postby Biondo » Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:34 pm

This discussion is quite interesting, mainly because I never understood what timenudge means.

I think the problem aroused because real cheaters are not around any more - or at least much more less than half a year ago - so bad players (and bad loosers) started to accuse every good player of unfair timenudging, with the same meaning they used in past times saying "cheater".

I don't know if a negative timenudge actually gives a player such an advantage, I don't have an opinion in merit, but I think that tweaking a config file supplied with the game (to be customized at pleasure by the player!) is something totally different from installing a third party software explicitly designed to circumvent the rules with the aim to give you a far superior, illegal, advantage.

I read this as a confirmation that SG game is now more clean than it was 6-8 months ago, and it's also perceived as more clean. And this is a big win for all SG community :)
User avatar
Biondo
SG Website Designer
 
Posts: 542
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:35 pm



Postby moRtem » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:49 am

Joe Kari wrote:Timenudger are not harder to hit because of negative timenudge.
But usually, people use timenudge when they have a bad ping: this is what make them harder to hit.


Like i have written before: In Q3 several players (with very good ping and stable connection) abused this setting to appear choppy to others. And it was definately the timenudge-setting.

If i had a source of a coder telling "Timenudge does NOT make you appear choppy" i would also rather believe him than someone who is talking about his subjective feeling.

But a perfect delag will ensure you that a headshot client-side is a headshot server-side (if you are still alive when your headshot reach the server).


Yes -- and that is because you have a virtual ping of 0. Otherwise you would need to aim in front of your opponent.

I also agree on the part where you are talking about "you still lose a race of fire with someone who has a better ping", but - at least - europe players in europe get <100 ping max. and delag alone does a very good job in that ping-range.


/quit
User avatar
moRtem
Gunslinger
 
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:56 pm



Postby /dev/random » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:52 pm

Just FYI, the FAQ I mentioned is written by the author of your beloved unlagged code.
User avatar
/dev/random
Smokin' Amigo!
 
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:58 pm



Postby moRtem » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:31 pm

/dev/random wrote:Just FYI, the FAQ I mentioned is written by the author of your beloved unlagged code.


I am aware of that.


/quit
User avatar
moRtem
Gunslinger
 
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:56 pm



Postby Joe Kari » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:17 am

Most of things about timenudge are just long-standing urban legend...

moRtem wrote:If i had a source of a coder telling "Timenudge does NOT make you appear choppy" i would also rather believe him than someone who is talking about his subjective feeling.

Like /dev/random said, the FAQ was currently made by the author of Unlagged himself, and he says :
Doesn't using cl_timenudge make you look jerky to other players? No, definitely not, in any way, shape, or form. It does not suppress commands, nor does it put inconsistent timestamps in them. (Those are the only two ways in which it could.)


Be sure that cl_timenudge, like all cl_* cvar, only involve the client-side.

moRtem wrote:Yes -- and that is because you have a virtual ping of 0. Otherwise you would need to aim in front of your opponent.

No it doesn't. Please read the full documentation of Unlagged to understand what exactly does delaging code. Really, it doesn't affect your ping in any manner. It just suppress some side-effect. To put it simple, it's a sort of WYSIWYG patch...
User avatar
Joe Kari
SG Team
 
Posts: 879
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:44 pm
Location: France



Next

Return to Saloon

Show Sidebar
Show Sidebar

User Control Panel